<?xml version="1.0" ?>

<kc>

<title>Kernel Traffic</title>

<author contact="mailto:zbrown@tumblerings.org">Zack Brown</author>

<headquote><a href="http://www.tux.org/lkml/">linux-kernel FAQ</a> |
<a href="http://www.tux.org/lkml/#s3-1">subscribe to linux-kernel</a> | <a
href="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/index.html">linux-kernel
Archives</a> | <a href="http://www.kernelnotes.org/">kernelnotes.org</a>
| <a href="http://lxr.linux.no/">LxR Kernel Source Browser</a> |
<a href="http://www.memalpha.cx/Linux/Kernel/">All Kernels</a> | <a
href="http://perso.wanadoo.es/xose/linux/linux_ports.html">Kernel
Ports</a> | <a
href="http://jungla.dit.upm.es/~jmseyas/linux/kernel/hackers-docs.html">Kernel
Docs</a> | <a href="http://members.aa.net/~swear/pedia/kernel.html">Gary's
Encyclopedia: Linux Kernel</a> | <a
href="http://kernelnewbies.org/">#kernelnewbies</a></headquote>

<issue num="120" date="28 May 2001 00:00:00 -0800" />

<stats posts="1372" size="5102" contrib="415" multiples="190" lastweek="161">

<person posts="113" size="313" who="Alan Cox " />
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<person posts="12" size="39" who="Pavel Machek " />
<person posts="11" size="38" who="Geert Uytterhoeven " />
<person posts="10" size="38" who="Christoph Rohland " />
<person posts="10" size="31" who="Andi Kleen " />
<person posts="10" size="28" who="Chris Wedgwood " />
<person posts="9" size="66" who="Marcus Meissner " />
<person posts="9" size="36" who="Ivan Kokshaysky " />
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<person posts="1" size="3" who="Nils Holland " />
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<person posts="1" size="2" who="&quot;spam goes to /dev/null&quot; " />
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<person posts="1" size="2" who="Slump " />
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</stats>

<section
  title="SMP Race In ext2"
  subject="[PATCH] SMP race in ext2 - metadata corruption."
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0104.3/0507.html"
  posts="91"
  startdate="26 Apr 2001 07:45:47 -0800"
  enddate="18 May 2001 06:46:35 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: ReiserFS</topic>
<topic>FS: ext2</topic>
<topic>SMP</topic>

<mention>Chris Mason</mention>
<mention>Andrea Arcangeli</mention>

<p>Alexander Viro reported:</p>

<quote who="Alexander Viro">

<p>Ext2 does getblk+wait_on_buffer for new metadata blocks before filling
them with zeroes. While that is enough for single-processor, on SMP we have
the following race:</p>

<p>

<blockquote>

<table border="0">
<th><td>CPU1</td><td>CPU2</td></th>
<tr><td>getblk gives us unlocked, non-uptodate bh<br />
wait_on_buffer() does nothing</td><td></td></tr>
<tr><td></td><td>                                        read from device locks it and starts IO</td></tr>
<tr><td>we zero it out.</td><td></td></tr>
<tr><td></td><td>                                        on-disk data overwrites our zeroes.</td></tr>
<tr><td>we mark it dirty<br />
bdflush writes the old data (_not_ zeroes) back to disk.  </td><td></td></tr>
</table>

</blockquote>

</p>

<p>Result: crap in metadata block. Proposed fix: lock_buffer()/unlock_buffer()
around memset()/mark_buffer_uptodate() instead of wait_on_buffer() before
them.</p>

</quote>

<p>Andrea Arcangeli confirmed the race, and speculated that other filsystems
were probably affected as well. Chris Mason confirmed that reiserfs had the
race; he added that he was working on a fix, but had to make sure he didn't hurt
the balancing code.</p>

<p>Linus Torvalds got into the discussion, saying he saw the race, but didn't
see how it could ever be triggered. It looked like a non-issue to him. He
said, <quote who="Linus Torvalds">Now, I don't disagree with your patch
(it's just obviously cleaner to lock it properly), but I don't think this
is a real bug.</quote> He added, <quote who="Linus Torvalds">We used to
have "breada()" do physical read-ahead that could have triggered this, but
we've long since gotten rid of that.  Or am I overlooking something?</quote>
Alexander pointed out that simply doing a 'dd' from the disk could trigger the
race. True, he acknowledged, in that particular case the 'dd' could only be
expected to produce garbage, and so no one in their right mind would do it,
but he said:</p>

<quote who="Alexander Viro">

<p>Suppose /dev/hda1 is owned by root.disks and permissions are 640.  It is
mounted read-write.</p>

<p>Process foo belongs to pfy.staff. PFY is included into disks, but
doesn't have root. I claim that he should be unable to cause fs corruption
on /dev/hda1.</p>

<p>Currently foo _can_ cause such corruption, even though it has nothing
resembling write permissions for device in question.</p>

<p>IMO it is wrong. I'm not saying that it's a real security problem. I'm not
saying that PFY is not idiot or that his actions make any sense.  However,
I think that situation when he can do that without write access to device
is just plain wrong.</p>

</quote>

<p>Andrea agreed. They had a little back-and-forth, and at one point Linus
remarked:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>Note that I think all these arguments are fairly bogus.  Doing things like
"dump" on a live filesystem is stupid and dangerous (in my opinion it is stupid
and dangerous to use "dump" at _all_, but that's a whole 'nother discussion
in itself), and there really are no valid uses for opening a block device that
is already mounted. More importantly, I don't think anybody actually does.</p>

<p>The fact that you _can_ do so makes the patch valid, and I do agree
with Al on the "least surprise" issue. I've already applied the patch,
in fact.  But the fact is that nobody should ever do the thing that could
cause problems.</p>

</quote>

<p>The discussion went on, with various suggestions of legitimate actions that
might trigger the race; some of which caused peals of laughter on both sides.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Serious Problems With Current 2.4 Kernels"
  subject="2.4.4 kernel freeze for unknown reason"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0105.1/0410.html"
  posts="14"
  startdate="09 May 2001 19:57:01 -0800"
  enddate="15 May 2001 21:25:08 -0800"
>
<topic>Virtual Memory</topic>

<p>Jacky Liu kept experiencing what appeared to be random lockups every couple
days under 2.4.4; Vincent Stemen confirmed:</p>

<quote who="Vincent Stemen">

<p>I have been experiencing these same problems since version 2.4.0.
Although, I think it has improved a little in 2.4.4, it still locks up.
The problem seems to be related to memory management and/or swap, and is
seems to do it primarily on machines with over 128Mb of RAM.  Although,
I have not tested systematically enough to confirm this.</p>

<p>I have been monitoring the memory usage constantly with the gnome memory
usage meter and noticed that as swap grows it is never freed back up.
I can kill off most of the large applications, such as netscape, xemacs,
etc, and little or no memory and swap will be freed.  Once swap is full
after a few days, my machine will lock up.</p>

<p>If I turn swap off all together or turn it off and back on periodically
to clear the swap before it gets full, I do not seem to experience the
lockups.</p>

<p>I am running on an AMD K6-400 with 256 Mb RAM but we have experienced
these problems with various other machines as well.</p>

</quote>

<p>Alan Cox replied cryptically, <quote who="Alan Cox">The swap handling
in 2.4 is somewhat hosed at the moment.</quote> He added, <quote who="Alan
Cox">I can give you a tiny patch that should fix the lockups and instead
it will kill processes out of memory but thats obviously not the actual fix
8)</quote> Later, he also said, <quote who="Alan Cox">I switched my desktop
box back to 2.2 a while back until the VM works.</quote> Yikes!</p>

</section>

<section
  title="LVM Development Policy"
  subject="LVM 1.0 release decision"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0105.1/0585.html"
  posts="19"
  startdate="11 May 2001 08:27:45 -0800"
  enddate="16 May 2001 15:38:48 -0800"
>
<topic>Disk Arrays: LVM</topic>

<mention>Alan Cox</mention>

<p>Heinz Mauelshagen explained:</p>

<quote who="Heinz Mauelshagen">

<p>As most of you probably know, we've got criticism a couple of weeks ago
about our Linux kernel patch policy causing the LVM vanilla kernel code to
differ from the one we release directly.</p>

<p>In order to avoid this difference we provide smaller patches more often now.
We have started already with a subset of about 50 necessary patches.</p>

<p>Even though we get kind support from Alan Cox to get those QAed and
integrated, the pure amount of patches will take at least a couple of weeks
to make it in.</p>

<p>This leads to the dilemma, that trying to avoid further differences between
our LVM releases and the stock kernel code would force us into postponing
the pending LVM 1.0 release accordingly which OTOH is incovenient for the
LVM user base.</p>

<p>In regard to this situation we'ld like to know about your oppinion on the
following request: is it acceptable to release 1.0 soon *before* all patches
to reach the 1.0 code status are in vanilla (presumed that we provide them
with our release as we always did before)?</p>

<p>We'll gather your answers for some days and will send the conclusion to
the lists.</p>

</quote>

<p>Jeff Garzik replied, <quote who="Jeff Garzik">Are you sending them all in
one batch (50 e-mails to Linus at once), or trickling them to Linus a few at
a time?  It might be faster to send him a batch (though not necessarily 50),
noting with each e-mail, after each patch's description, that the particular
patch depends patches C, F, and H that have come before it.  That way Linus
can apply 8 out of 10 patches, and then you synchronize with him and start
the cycle over again.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Fix For Exar ST16C654 In Stable Series"
  subject="[PATCH] drivers/char/serial.c bug in ST16C654 detection"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0105.1/0698.html"
  posts="8"
  startdate="11 May 2001 16:27:23 -0800"
  enddate="17 May 2001 15:20:58 -0800"
>

<mention>Stuart MacDonald</mention>

<p>Val Henson posted a patch, and explained:</p>

<quote who="Val Henson">

<p>This fixes a bug in the autoconfig_startech_uarts function in serial.c.
The problem is that 0's are written to the baud rate registers in order to
detect an XR16C850 or XR16C854.  This makes the Exar ST16C654 go kablooey.
Saving and restoring the baud rate registers after the test fixes it.</p>

<p>I'm assuming that the XR16C85[04] detection works as is and doesn't need
the original baud rate restored.  If I'm wrong, I'll rewrite the patch.</p>

</quote>

<p>Stuart MacDonald, who'd worked on the code in question, asked for
clarification and offered some criticisms of the patch. In particular,
he wanted to know the version numbers for the serial driver, the kernel,
and the distribution Val used to get the Exar to "go kablooey". He felt
Val's patch was good, but he wanted to understand the behavior Val saw. Val
replied that she was using the serial driver version 5.05a (2001-03-20) with
MANY_PORTS SHARE_IRQ SERIAL_PCI enabled, and kernel version 2.4.5-pre1. They
went back and forth, but Stuart was unable to reproduce the crash.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Device Numbers; Developer Discontent"
  subject="LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0105.1/1042.html"
  posts="365"
  startdate="14 May 2001 11:19:34 -0800"
  enddate="21 May 2001 21:56:34 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: devfs</topic>
<topic>FS: ramfs</topic>
<topic>Virtual Memory</topic>

<p>H. Peter Anvin explained:</p>

<quote who="H. Peter Anvin">

<p>Linus Torvalds has requested a moratorium on new device number
assignments. His hope is that a new and better method for device space
handing will emerge as a result.</p>

<p>Alan Cox has requested that I maintain a forked registry for his -ac
kernel patch tree.  I have agreed to do so once I have forked off the "final"
version of the registry for Linus' tree.  At that time I will process the
backlog for the benefit of the -ac registry only.  Please have patience
until I can get that to happen.</p>

<p>Please note that this is not my decision (in fact, I have serious concerns
with it.)  In particular, /dev namespace coordination still applies.</p>

</quote>

<p>Jeff Garzik replied:</p>

<quote who="Jeff Garzik">

<p>Here's my suggestion for a solution.</p>

<p>Once I work through a bunch of net driver problems, I want to release a
snapshot block device driver (freezes a blkdev in time).  For this, I needed
a block major.  After hearing about the device number freeze, I was wondering
if this solution works:</p>

<p>Register block device using existing API, and obtain a dynamically
assigned major number.  Export a tiny ramfs which lists all device nodes.
Mounted on /dev/snap, /dev/snap/0 would be the first blkdev for snap's
dynamically assigned major.  (Al Viro said he has skeleton code to create
such an fs, IIRC)</p>

<p>This solution</p>

<p>

<ol>

<li>keeps from grot-ing up /proc even more [I had considered proc_mknod()
until viro talked me out of it]</li>

<li>does not require centrally assigned majors and minors.</li>

<li>does not require devfs.  most distros ship without it afaik, and</li>

</ol>

</p>

<p>switching to it is not an overnight process, and requires devfsd to be
useful in the real world.</p>

</quote>

<p>H. Peter replied that Jeff's proposal did not, however, <quote who="H. Peter
Anvin">manage permissions, nor does it provide for a sane namespace (it exposes
too many internal implementation details in the interface -- in particular,
the driver becomes part of the namespace, and devices move around between
drivers regularly.)</quote> But Jeff replied that this was taken care of by
devfs and devfsd. But Alan Cox said, <quote who="Alan Cox">As to devfsd well
Al Viro was reporting races in it long ago that I don't believe Richard has
had time to fix nor has anyone else fixed.  What is the state on devfs there
?</quote> Richard Gooch replied, <quote who="Richard Gooch">Actually, it was
devfs, not devfsd that Al was complaining about.  Fortunately these races
are hard to trigger without deliberately trying to trigger them, otherwise
I'd be inundated with bug reports :-/</quote> He added regarding status,
<quote who="Richard Gooch">Getting very close now. This last weekend was my
first time for ages that I've had an uninterrupted weekend to hack on Linux
and didn't have other really urgent stuff to deal with.</quote></p>

<p>At this point the discussion of increasing the size of dev_t came up again,
with Linus starting it off:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>a 32-bit (or 64-bit) dev_t does NOT make it any easier to manage permissions
or anything like that anyway. Look at the current mess /dev is. Imagine it
an order of magnitude worse.</p>

<p>Big device numbers are _not_ a solution. I will accept a 32-bit one, but
no more, and I will _not_ accept a "manage by hand" approach any more. The
time has long since come to say "No". Which I've done. If you can't make
it manage the thing automatically with a script, you won't get a hardcoded
major device number just because you're lazy.</p>

<p>End of discussion.</p>

</quote>

<p>To the last sentence, Rik van Riel replied:</p>

<quote who="Rik van Riel">

<p>I've been doubting whether to work on both the -ac kernels and the -linus
tree, but this is a pretty good argument for sticking with -ac and just
ignoring the -linus tree...</p>

<p>Lets see what happens...</p>

</quote>

<p>Alan Cox replied:</p>

<quote who="Alan Cox">

<p>Time will make that decision. Linus kindly gave us all the power to vote
with our feet. One thing I absolutely refuse to do is to let a disagreemnt
over some specific device implementation turn into an excuse for a wider
difference in the trees.</p>

<p>So yes -ac might have static majors but the rest of it I intend to keep
merging with Linus and tracking closely to his tree. Certainly not ignoring
the -linus tree.</p>

</quote>

<p>Rik replied, <quote who="Rik van Riel">Agreed. However, if this thing
means I cannot use the -linus tree without devfs, then it will also mean my
VM stuff only gets tested on -ac kernels...</quote></p>

<p>Alan also replied to Linus directly, regarding device numbers, saying,
<quote who="Alan Cox">on that issue I'm so convinced you are wrong I'm
prepared to maintain sensible Unix device behaviour in the -ac pretty
much indefinitely.</quote> He added that he also didn't like Linus' "end of
discussion" approach. He said (over the course of several posts) that Linus was
making a similar mistake to the Plan9 OS -- a beautiful system, in his opinion,
but with no significant user base because it had compatibility problems. As
far as vendors' willingness to go along with Linux incompatibilities, he
said, <quote who="Alan Cox">I bet the vendors in question dont think the sun
shines out of linus backside any more.</quote> This did not impress Linus,
who replied at one point, <quote who="Linus Torvalds">I know what I want,
and I've let the current mess go on for too long. If it takes some pain to
fix it, then so be it. It needs to be fixed, even if people suddenly start
thinking that the light of my a** dimmed a bit. That's ok.</quote></p>

<p>Elsewhere there followed a long discussion over the best ways to handle
device numbers, devfs, and compatibility.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="New rootfs For 2.5"
  subject="[PATCH] rootfs (part 1)"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0105.2/0045.html"
  posts="21"
  startdate="16 May 2001 04:12:52 -0800"
  enddate="16 May 2001 22:46:11 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: ramfs</topic>
<topic>FS: rootfs</topic>

<mention>Alan Cox</mention>
<mention>Linus Torvalds</mention>

<p>Alexander Viro posted a patch and explained:</p>

<quote who="Alexander Viro">

<p>Linus, patch is the first chunk of rootfs stuff. I've tried to get
it as small as possible - all it does is addition of absolute root on
ramfs and necessary changes to mount_root/change_root/sys_pivot_root and
follow_dotdot. Real root is mounted atop of the "absolute" one.</p>

<p>More interesting stuff lives in the next parts - once we have rootfs we
can get rid of a lot of cruft in fs/super.c around mounting real root and
switching it after initrd. In particular, we can get rid of the umount_root
flag in do_umount() and kill_super() which allows much cleaner handling of
vfsmounts. I'll try to feed this stuff in small and obvious pieces.</p>

<p>It's transparent to userland - the only visible effect is an extra line in
/proc/mounts. Moreover, it's transparent to the kernel - the only functions
that really care are those that do the first mount.</p>

<p>One point that might be better done differently - since we need ramfs
for boot I've just made fs/Config.in declare CONFIG_RAMFS as define_bool
CONFIG_RAMFS y. If ramfs grows (e.g. gets resource limits patches from
-ac) we might be better off doing a minimal variant permanently in kernel
(calling it rootfs) and making ramfs use rootfs methods. It's completely
separate issue, so I've done it the simplest way for the time being.</p>

</quote>

<p>Linus Torvalds and Alan Cox felt this was definitely 2.5 material, though
Linus added that the patch itself looked OK. Alexander felt the patch was local
enough to make it into 2.4, though he didn't have strong feeling either way.
Elsewhere, he added:</p>

<quote who="Alexander Viro">

<p>

<ul>

<li>it makes fixing races in fs/super.c easier and we will need that
in 2.4 (or, at least, backported to 2.4 at some point)</li>

<li>it's backwards-compatible.</li>

<li>it allows to kill tons of the ugliness in rd.c in obviously
correct way, for values of obviously correct equal to "provably equivalent
behaviour to the old code"</li>

</ul>

</p>

<p>I think that it's OK for 2.4, but then I'm obviously biased (mostly by
the fact that I know how much it allows to clean up without breaking any
compatibility, including binary compatibility in the kernel). Up to you,
indeed.</p>

</quote>

<p>There was a bit of technical discussion about the patch itself, and the
thread ended.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Linux IA-32 Init Doc Available"
  subject="[announce] Linux 2.4 x86 init."
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0105.2/0582.html"
  posts="1"
  startdate="18 May 2001 10:55:22 -0800"
>

<p>Randy Dunlap announced:</p>

<quote who="Randy Dunlap">

<p>I've documented x86/i386/IA-32 Linux kernel init (after loaders).
It's fairly large, so there may be too much detail here and I may cut back
on it some if that seems to be needed.</p>

<p>Comments, feedback, corrections, and additions are welcome.  As I say in
the intro, hopefully some of you (or us) will find this useful/helpful.</p>

<p>It's viewable at <a
href="http://rddunlap.home.att.net/linit/lin240_init_x86.html">http://rddunlap.home.att.net/linit/lin240_init_x86.html</a></p>

</quote>

<p>There was no reply.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="JFS 0.3.2 Available"
  subject="Announcing Journaled File System (JFS)  release 0.3.2 available"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0105.2/0614.html"
  posts="1"
  startdate="18 May 2001 12:20:44 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: JFS</topic>

<p>Steve Best announced:</p>

<quote who="Steve Best">

<p>Release <a
href="http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/jfs">0.3.2 of
JFS</a> was made available today.</p>

<p>Drop 32 on May 18, 2001 (jfs-0.3.2-patch.tar.gz) includes fixes to the
file system and utilities.</p>

<p>Function and Fixes in release 0.3.2</p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>Remove the warning message from fsck when partition is mounted
read-only</li>

<li>Fix for assert(mp-&gt;count) jfs_metapage.c 675! report as hardlink problem
  in drop 31 (dtDeleteUp was discarding the wrong metapage_t.)</li>

<li>Fix seg fault problem while creating hard links.</li>

<li>Fixed dbench hang, do to transaction locks not being freed.</li>

<li>Added support to correctly handle read-only and remounting the file
system.</li>

</ul>

</p>

<p>For more details about the problems fixed, please see the README.</p>

</quote>

<p>There was no reply.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Very Old Config Bug; CML2 Discussion"
  subject="Brown-paper-bag bug in m68k, sparc, and sparc64 config files"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0105.2/0786.html"
  posts="8"
  startdate="19 May 2001 14:10:26 -0800"
  enddate="19 May 2001 20:10:58 -0800"
>
<topic>Kernel Build System</topic>

<p>Eric S. Raymond posted a patch and reported:</p>

<quote who="Eric S. Raymond">

<p>This bug unconditionally disables a configuration question -- and it's
so old that it has propagated across three port files, without either of
the people who did the cut and paste for the latter two noticing it.</p>

<p>This sort of thing would never ship in CML2, because the compiler would
throw an undefined-symbol warning on BLK_DEV_ST.  The temptation to engage
in sarcastic commentary at the expense of people who still think CML2 is
an unnecessary pain in the butt is great.  But I will restrain myself.
This time.</p>

</quote>

<p>John Levon added, <quote who="John Levon">in fact it was originally in i386
too. I noticed and fixed it, didn't even think about the other archs.</quote>
Mike Galbraith suggested, <quote who="Mike Galbraith">Erm.. if this bug is
_that old_ and nobody noticed, isn't the right fix to just delete the dead
option?</quote> There was no reply to this, but elsewhere Benedict Bridgwater
objected sarcastically:</p>

<quote who="Benedict Bridgwater">

<p>So a shortcoming of the CML1 tools justifies the CML2 language?</p>

<p>I guess the next bug found in the Python2 interpreter will justify writing
CML3 in FORTRAN.</p>

</quote>

<p>Miles Lane came down on Benedict in measured tones, with, <quote
who="Miles Lane">IIRC, Eric floated the CML2 idea over a year ago, provided
some rudimentary code and requested feedback.  There has seemed, for a
long time, to be agreement amoungst most kernel developers that there were
serious problems with CML1 and that it needed to be junked. There are many
things that CML1 was not going to allow us to do that will be possible with
CML2 (subsetting of the code tree, etc). I don't think Eric's statement
about this particular brown-paper-bag bug means that he thinks that this
alone justifies migrating to CML2. There are a lot of good reasons for the
migration. It isn't, perhaps, a perfect solution, but it is one that Eric
has implemented with a year's worth of effort, with full knowledge of the
kernel development community and with an open invitation for contributions
and feedback. To rag on it now seems belated and unhelpful. It would be
more useful if you helped Eric improve CML2, since there appears to be
agreement that it will be used in 2.5.</quote> But Benedict argued, <quote
who="Benedict Bridgwater">CML2 itself may be well justified (although not
on grounds of a diagnostic that CML1 tools could be changed to generate!),
but there's no reason the tools utilizing the CML2 based rules shouldn't
present a *superset* of the existing functionality. To present a dumbed
down UI targeted for "Aunt Millie" or whoever against the protests of
the mainstream kernel tool audience makes zero sense to me.</quote> But
Keith Owens chided, <quote who="Keith Owens">How many times do we have to
say this?  CML2 supports everybody from Aunt Millie (novice mode) through
non-standard machine configurations (expert mode) through Linus (vi .config,
make oldconfig).  Pick the level of configuration that you need.</quote> End of
thread.</p>

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