<?xml version="1.0" ?>

<kc>

<title>Kernel Traffic</title>

<author contact="mailto:zbrown@tumblerings.org">Zack Brown</author>

<issue num="142" date="19 Nov 2001 00:00:00 -0800" />

<stats posts="1525" size="6343" contrib="529" multiples="227" lastweek="197">

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<section
  title="Clock Synchronization Problems In 2.2 And 2.4"
  subject="PROBLEM: Linux updates RTC secretly when clock synchronizes"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0110.3/1451.html"
  posts="36"
  startdate="30 Oct 2001 16:33:12 -0800"
  enddate="10 Nov 2001 12:49:01 -0800"
>

<mention>Linus Torvalds</mention>

<p>Ian Maclaine-cross posted a patch, and explained:</p>

<quote who="Ian Maclaine-cross">

<p>When /usr/sbin/ntpd synchronizes the Linux kernel (or system) clock
using the Network Time Protocol the kernel time is accurate to a few
milliseconds. Linux then sets the Real Time (or Hardware or CMOS) Clock to
this time at approximately 11 minute intervals. Typical RTCs drift less than
10 s/day so rebooting causes only millisecond errors.</p>

<p>Linux currently does not record the 11 minute updates to a log file.
Clock programs (like hwclock) cannot correct RTC drift at boot without knowing
when the RTC was last set. If NTP service is available after a long shutdown,
ntpd may step the time.  Worse after a longer shutdown ntpd may drop out or
even synchronize to the wrong time zone.  The workarounds are clumsy.</p>

<p>Please find following my small patch for linux/arch/i386/kernel/time.c
which adds a KERN_NOTICE of each 11 minute update to the RTC. This is just
for i386 machines at present. A script can search the logs for the last set
time of the RTC and update /etc/adjtime.  Hwclock can then correct the RTC
for drift and set the kernel clock.</p>

<p>I patched Linux 2.2.19 and 2.4.12 then compiled, installed and rebooted
on Pentium MMX and AMD K6-III machines respectively. When the kernel clock
synchronized "...: Real Time Clock set at xxx s" appeared in the kernel log
every 661 s where "xxx" was the current system time. Messages ceased whenever
the clock was unsynchronized.  Ntpd produces typically four log lines in
661 s so the increase in log volume is small for ntpd users and nothing for
nonusers. The patch added 11 bytes to the size of my compressed kernel.</p>

</quote>

<p>Pavel Machek replied, <quote who="Pavel Machek">That seems as very
wrong solution.  What about just making kernel only _read_ system clock,
and never set it?  That looks way cleaner to me.</quote> Ian replied:</p>

<quote who="Ian Maclaine-cross">

<p>QUESTION: What results in best timekeeping by the RTC, constant updates
or logging the offset?</p>

<p>ANSWER:</p>

<p>The Linux kernel code for the 11 minute update in arch/i386/kernel/time.c
has an RTC setting error of +-0.005 s.  The adjtimex source suggests an RTC
reading error of +-0.000025 s.</p>

<p>Accurate RTC timekeeping also requires an accurate value of average drift
rate for typical use. Measuring this requires timing over a long unset period
such as one month.</p>

<p>Logging the offset is more accurate per reading and allows more accurate
measurement of drift than 11 minute updates.</p>

<p>END ANSWER.</p>

<p>RTC accuracy supports optionalizing the 11 minute update.</p>

<p>Other reasons to optionalize the 11 minute update which various people
suggest:</p>

<p>

<ol>

<li>The kernel should not dictate OS policy;</li>

<li>Simplifies programming with /dev/rtc;</li>

<li>Improves performance of /dev/rtc;</li>

<li>Slightly reduced kernel size;</li>

<li>5. Slightly faster timer_interrupt;</li>

<li>6. Easier to use utilities like hwclock.</li>

</ol>

</p>

<p>I agree with you, Pavel. Commenting out the 11 minute update code is a
better solution. :)</p>

</quote>

<p>Pavel asked if Ian would push the patch through to Linus Torvalds, and
Ian said he'd work something up for 2.5.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Some ext3 Users Discover They've Been Using ext2"
  subject="ext3 vs resiserfs vs xfs"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0111.0/1552.html"
  posts="53"
  startdate="07 Nov 2001 07:00:55 -0800"
  enddate="07 Nov 2001 13:45:55 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: ReiserFS</topic>
<topic>FS: ext2</topic>
<topic>FS: ext3</topic>

<mention>Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk</mention>

<p>Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk asked which was best, ext3, Reiserfs, or xfs. In
particular, he'd noticed that after a sudden shutdown on his RedHat 7.2 box,
the system wanted to run fsck at bootup anyway, just like ext2. But Alan Cox
replied, <quote who="Alan Cox">RH 7.2 after an unexpected shutdown will give
you a 5 second count down when you can choose to force an fsck - ext3 doesnt
need an fsck but sometimes folks might want to force it thats all.</quote></p>

<p>Several people complained that fsck ran whether they wanted it to or not,
and it was pointed out that they might not actually be using ext3. After
some investigation, this was confirmed. A number of folks who believed
themselves to be using ext3 because of text in various system configuration
files like /etc/fstab, were surprised to find that they'd been sudden-booting
non-journaling filesystems all this time.</p>

<p>After fixing the problem on his own system, Zvi Har'El asked why RedHat did
not compile ext3 directly into the kernel, which would make the problem much
less likely. Arjan van de Ven (of RedHat) replied, <quote who="Arjan van de
Ven">The basic idea is "everything which can be a module will be a module",
even scsi is a module. And if you use grub, it's 100% transparent as the
initrd will be automatically added to the grub config when you install the
RH kernel rpm; even if you use lilo the initrd is supposed to be made for
you automatically.</quote></p>

<p>The thread ended somewhat inconclusively. There was not much discussion
of the relative merits of Reiserfs and xfs.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Revising The Linux Scheduler"
  subject="[patch] scheduler cache affinity improvement for 2.4 kernels"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0111.1/0075.html"
  posts="23"
  startdate="08 Nov 2001 06:30:11 -0800"
  enddate="14 Nov 2001 10:08:04 -0800"
>
<topic>Real-Time</topic>
<topic>SMP</topic>
<topic>Scheduler</topic>

<mention>Davide Libenzi</mention>

<p>Ingo Molnar announced, <quote who="Ingo Molnar">i've attached a patch
that fixes a long-time performance problem in the Linux scheduler.</quote>
He went on to explain:</p>

<quote who="Ingo Molnar">

<p>it's a fix for a UP and SMP scheduler problem Alan described to me recently,
the 'CPU intensive process scheduling' problem. The essence of the problem:
if there are multiple, CPU-intensive processes running, intermixed with
other scheduling activities such as interactive work or network-intensive
applications, then the Linux scheduler does a poor job of affinizing processes
to processor caches. Such scheduler workload is common for a large percentage
of important application workloads: database server workloads, webserver
workloads and math-intensive clustered jobs, and other applications.</p>

<p>If there are CPU-intensive processes A B and C, and a scheduling-intensive
X task, then in the stock 2.4 kernels we end up scheduling in the following
way:</p>

<p>

<pre>    A X A X A ... [timer tick]
    B X B X B ... [timer tick]
    C X C X C ... [timer tick]</pre>

</p>

<p>ie. we switch between CPU-intensive (and possibly cache-intensive)
processes every timer tick. The timer tick can be 10 msec or shorter,
depending on the HZ value.</p>

<p>the intended length of the timeslice of such processes is supposed
to be dependent on their priority - for typical CPU-intensive processes
it's 100 msecs. But in the above case, the effective timeslice of the
CPU/cache-intensive process is 10 msec or lower, causing potential cache
trashing if the working set of A, B and C are larger than the cache size of
the CPU but the invidivual process' workload fits into cache.  Repopulating a
large processor cache can take many milliseconds (on a 2MB on-die cache Xeon
CPU it takes more than 10 msecs to repopulate a typical cache), so the effect
can be significant.</p>

<p>The correct behavior would be:</p>

<p>

<pre>    A X A X A ... [10 timer ticks]
    B X B X B ... [10 timer ticks]
    C X C X C ... [10 timer ticks]</pre>

</p>

<p>this is in fact what happens if the scheduling acitivity of process 'X'
does not happen.</p>

<p>solution: i've introduced a new current->timer_ticks field (which is not
in the scheduler 'hot cacheline', nor does it cause any scheduling overhead),
which counts the number of timer ticks registered by any particular process. If
the number of timer ticks reaches the number of available timeslices then
the timer interrupt marks the process for reschedule, clears ->counter and
->timer_ticks. These 'timer ticks' have to be correctly administered across
fork() and exit(), and some places that touch ->counter need to deal with
timer_ticks too, but otherwise the patch has low impact.</p>

<p>scheduling semantics impact: this causes CPU hogs to be more affine to the
CPU they were running on, and will 'batch' them more agressively - without
giving them more CPU time than under the stock scheduler. The change does
not impact interactive tasks since they grow their ->counter above that of
CPU hogs anyway. It might cause less 'interactivity' in CPU hogs - but this
is the intended effect.</p>

<p>performance impact: this field is never used in the scheduler hotpath.
It's only used by the low frequency timer interrupt, and by the fork()/exit()
path, which can take an extra variable without any visible impact. Also some
fringe cases that touch ->counter needed updating too: the OOM code and RR
RT tasks.</p>

<p>performance results: The cases i've tested appear to work just fine,
and the change has the cache-affinity effect we are looking for. I've
measured 'make -j bzImage' execution times on an 8-way, 700 MHz, 2MB cache
Xeon box. (certainly not a box whose caches are easy to trash.) Here are 6
successive make -j execution times with and without the patch applied. (To
avoid pagecache layout and other effects, the box is running a modified but
functionally equivalent version of the patch which allows runtime switching
between the old and new scheduler behavior.)</p>

<p>stock scheduler:</p>

<p>

<pre>  real    1m1.817s
  real    1m1.871s
  real    1m1.993s
  real    1m2.015s
  real    1m2.049s
  real    1m2.077s</pre>

</p>

<p>with the patch applied:</p>

<p>

<pre>  real    1m0.177s
  real    1m0.313s
  real    1m0.331s
  real    1m0.349s
  real    1m0.462s
  real    1m0.792s</pre>

</p>

<p>ie. stock scheduler is doing it in 62.0 seconds, new scheduler is doing
it in 60.3 seconds, a ~3% improvement - not bad, considering that compilation
is exeucting 99% in user-space, and that there was no 'interactive' activity
during the compilation job.</p>

<p>- to further measure the effects of the patch i've changed HZ to 1024 on
a single-CPU, 700 MHz, 2MB cache Xeon box, which improved 'make -j' kernel
compilation times by 4%.</p>

<p>- Compiling just drivers/block/floppy.c (which is a cache-intensive
operation) in parallel, with a constant single-process Apache network load
in the background shows a 7% improvement.</p>

<p>This shows the results we expected: with smaller timeslices, the effect
of cache trashing shows up more visibly.</p>

<p>(NOTE: i used 'make -j' only to create a well-known workload that has a
high cache footprint. It's not to suggest that 'make -j' makes much sense
on a single-CPU box.)</p>

<p>(it would be nice if those people who suspect scalability problems in
their workloads, could further test/verify the effects this patch.)</p>

<p>the patch is against 2.4.15-pre1 and boots/works just fine on both UP
and SMP systems.</p>

</quote>

<p>Davide Libenzi gave a link to <a
href="http://www.xmailserver.org/linux-patches/mss.html">his
own proposal</a> for a better scheduler, and to the <a
href="http://www.xmailserver.org/linux-patches/lnxsched.html#CPUHist">patch
to make it happen</a>. Ingo had some criticism of the patch and they went
back and forth for awhile on it, and at one point Mike Fedyk stepped between
them with:</p>

<quote who="Mike Fedyk">

<p>Conceptually, both patches are compatible.</p>

<p>Whether they are technically is for someone else to say...</p>

<p>Ingo's patch in effect lowers the number of jiffies taken per second in
the scheduler (by making each task use several jiffies).</p>

<p>Davide's patch can take the default scheduler (even Ingo's enhanced
scheduler) and make it per processor, with his extra layer of scheduling
between individual processors.</p>

<p>I think that together, they both win.  Davide's patch keeps a task from
switching CPUs very often, and Ingo's patch will make each task on each CPU
use the cache to the best extent for that task.</p>

<p>It remains to be proven whether the coarser scheduling approach (Ingo's)
will actually help when looking at cache properties....  When each task takes
a longer time slice, that allows the other tasks to be flushed out of the
caches during that time.  When the next task comes back in, it will have to
re-populate the cache again.  And the same for the next and etc...</p>

</quote>

<p>There was some more argument, and the thread petered out inconclusively.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Lots Of Swapping During NFS Writes"
  subject="Writing over NFS causes lots of paging"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0111.1/0628.html"
  posts="3"
  startdate="11 Nov 2001 02:48:55 -0800"
  enddate="11 Nov 2001 19:36:53 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: NFS</topic>
<topic>Virtual Memory</topic>

<p>Simon Kirby reported:</p>

<quote who="Simon Kirby">

<p>It looks like when writing large amounts of data to NFS where the remote
end is slower than the local end the local end appears to start swapping out a
lot I'm guessing this is because it can read much faster than it can write.</p>

<p>Also, I see NFS timeouts and thus "I/O error" messages fom cp when it is
mounted with the "soft" option, even with high timeouts.  "hard" works fine,
but I didn't want to use it for this mount.</p>

</quote>

<p>Linus Torvalds replied:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>the real reason for why the NFS write stuff causes page-outs is that the
VM layer does not really understand the notion of writeback pages.</p>

<p>The VM layer has one explicit special case: it knows about the magic
in "page-&gt;buffers", and can handle writeback for block-oriented devices
sanely. But any non-buffer-oriented filesystem is "invisible" to the VM layer,
and has to use other tricks to make the VM ignore its pages.</p>

<p>In the case of NFS, it increments the page count and has it's own private
non-VM-visible writeback data structures.  This pins the page in memory,
but at the same time, because the VM doesn't understand it, the VM will end
up thinking the page is mapped in user space or something else, and won't
know how to start writeouts.  </p>

<p>Quite frankly, I don't rightly know what the real fix is. Making
"page-&gt;buffers" be a generic thing (a "void *") along with making the
buffer flushing logic be behind a address space operation is probably the
right thing in the long run.</p>

</quote>

<p>But Trond Myklebust objected:</p>

<quote who="Trond Myklebust">

<p>That only takes care of writebacks. Don't forget that reading &amp;
readahead can also eat memory if somebody forgets to call lock_page()
(a common problem on 'hard,intr' mounts).</p>

<p>You'll notice that in the NFS updates I sent you the other day, there is
a new function 'nfs_try_to_free_pages()' that provides a rather generic way
of freeing up NFS memory resources. Its sole purpose today is to ensure that
we keep an upper limit of 256 requests per mount.  </p>

<p>My (still somewhat vague) plan is to expand that interface some time
during 2.5.x to allow the VM to control and limit the memory usage of the
NFS client - flushing out read and write requests if necessary.  IMHO, the
filesystem can often be more efficient at clearing out pages if we leave the
choice of strategy up to it, rather than having the VM micro-manage exactly
which page is to be thrown out first.  For instance, under NFSv3 there is
usually a huge advantage to sending off a COMMIT over any other call, since
it can potentially free up a whole truckload of pages.</p>

</quote>

<p>There was no reply.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Linus Preparing 2.4 Hand-Off To Marcelo"
  subject="[PATCH] reformat mtrr.c to conform to CodingStyle"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0111.1/1060.html"
  posts="14"
  startdate="12 Nov 2001 20:25:39 -0800"
  enddate="14 Nov 2001 08:56:48 -0800"
>
<topic>BSD: NetBSD</topic>

<mention>Andreas Dilger</mention>
<mention>Chris Wedgwood</mention>
<mention>Helge Hafting</mention>

<p>Benjamin LaHaise posted a patch to make the mtrr.c file conform to the coding
style standards layed out in Documentation/CodingStyle. But Linus Torvalds
replied politically, <quote who="Linus Torvalds">I don't like reformatting
without at least asking the maintainer, unless
the maintainer isn't doing maintenance. Also, right now I'd rather not
have any big patches even if they are just syntactic.. Makes hand-over to
Marcelo simpler.</quote></p>

<p>Chris Wedgwood pointed out that if folks wanted to start doing stylistic
patches, there were tons of places that needed it. Jeff Garzik agreed, and
added, <quote who="Jeff Garzik">For mtrr.c it (a) is unmaintained for years,
and (b) is actively being hacked on by non-maintainers.  It has an especially
strong case for Lindent'ing.</quote></p>

<p>Elsewhere, Andreas Dilger pointed out that some of Benjamin's changes
to mtrr.c looked not so nice, and Benjamin replied, <quote who="Benjamin
LaHaise">That's what Lindent came up with, which evidently needs
tweaking.</quote> Close by, Jeff put in, <quote who="Jeff Garzik">IMHO
CodingStyle is defined in theory by Documentation/CodingStyle, and in
practice by linux/scripts/Lindent, which was changed in 2.4.15-preXX even,
to be more up-to-date.</quote></p>

<p>Elsewhere, Helge Hafting suggested that Linus should just run Lindent himself
on the whole tree, instead of having bunches of people submit style patches. He
proposed:</p>

<p><code>find linux/ -name "*.[ch]" | linux/scripts/Lindent</code></p>

<p>But Jeff replied, <quote who="Jeff Garzik">Lindent still does a few
dumb things which make me review the code after formatting and before
submission...</quote> He also suggested checking out NetBSD's indent program,
which Christoph Hellewig had recently ported to Linux.  Christoph gave <a
href="http://developer.berlios.de/project/filelist.php?group_id=192">the
URL</a> to his version, and suggested the discussion might be heading off
topic.</p>

<p>End of thread.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Linux Vs. FreeBSD Benchmark"
  subject="2.4.x has finally made it!"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0111.1/1134.html"
  posts="11"
  startdate="13 Nov 2001 02:12:51 -0800"
  enddate="14 Nov 2001 07:30:16 -0800"
>
<topic>BSD: FreeBSD</topic>
<topic>Virtual Memory</topic>

<p>Alastair Stevens pointed to an article comparing Linux and FreeBSD:</p>

<quote who="Alastair Stevens">

<p>For those who haven't seen it yet, Moshe Bar at BYTE.com has revisited
his Linux 2.4 vs FreeBSD benchmarks, using 2.4.12 in this case:</p>

<p><a
href="http://www.byte.com/documents/s=1794/byt20011107s0001/1112_moshe.html">http://www.byte.com/documents/s=1794/byt20011107s0001/1112_moshe.html</a></p>

<p>During the original benchmarks, using the newly-release 2.4.0, Linux
was largely hammered by FreeBSD, and exhibited all sorts of interactivity
problems under load, due to VM and other issues.</p>

<p>Well now, with the newer releases, we really seem to have caught up again.
The new VM, and the millions of other fixes since 2.4.0 have made all the
difference. FreeBSD is an impressive OS, and a worthy competitor with a
distinguished heritage - it's great to see Linux snapping at its heels.</p>

<p>So congratulations to all kernel developers - 2.4.x has basically 'made it'
now, and months of hard work have produced a stable, high-performance and
cutting edge kernel. I'm looking forward to running the cross-bred Linus /
Alan 2.4.15 soon, and  even more to 2.5.x - as Linux heads onwards to new
levels yet again.</p>

</quote>

<p>Matthias Andree replied, <quote who="Matthias Andree">Wow. That person is
knowledgeable... NOT. Turning off fsync() for mail is just as good as piping
it to /dev/null. See RFC-1123.</quote> And Christoph Hellwig added, <quote
who="Christoph Hellwig">After the last VM article no one expect any clue
from him anayway 8)</quote>. Elsewhere, Kevin Wooten also remarked, <quote
who="Kevin Wooten">Why is he using FreeBSD 4.3? Version 4.4 has been out
for quite a while....that seems like quite an oversight, unless 4.3 performs
better than 4.4, which I doubt.</quote> However, Doug McNaught pointed out,
regarding the fsync() comment:</p>

<quote who="Doug McNaught">

<p>Umm...  He specifically stated that it was a Very Bad Idea for production
systems.  He simply wanted to measure general throughput rather than disk
latency (which is a bottleneck with fsync() enabled).</p>

<p>It's a benchmark, lighten up!  ;)</p>

</quote>

<p>Matthias replied that the article purported to test every-day use, and that
disk latency would fall into that category. He said, <quote who="Matthias
Andree">fsync() efficiency comes into play and wants to be benchmarked as
well. How do you know if your fsync() syncs what's needed, the whole partition,
the partition's meta data (softupdates!) or the world (all blocks)?</quote>
Doug felt that was a good point, and the thread ended.</p>

</section>

</kc>

