<?xml version="1.0" ?>

<kc>

<title>Kernel Traffic</title>

<author contact="mailto:zbrown@tumblerings.org">Zack Brown</author>

<issue num="161" date="07 Apr 2002 23:00:00 -0800" />

<intro>

<p>I'd like to draw your attention to <a
href="http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia_china/story.jsp?story=281067">this
article</a> that describes some of the behavior of the new US
government. "First they came for the..." etc.</p>

</intro>

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<section
  title="Multithreaded Core Dumps For ELF Executables"
  subject="[PATCH] multithreaded coredumps for elf exeecutables"
  archive=""
  posts="18"
  startdate="15 Mar 2002 03:37:26 -0800"
  enddate="29 Mar 2002 04:50:29 -0800"
>
<topic>Executable File Format</topic>
<topic>SMP</topic>
<notopic>Microkernels</notopic>

<mention>Suparna Bhattacharya</mention>
<mention>Pavel Machek</mention>
<mention>Jun Nakajima</mention>
<mention>Tony Luck</mention>
<mention>Mark Gross</mention>



<p>Vamsi Krishna S. of IBM announced:</p>

<quote who="Vamsi Krishna S.">

<p>Here is a kernel patch to support multithreaded coredumps being worked on
by Mark Gross (Intel, mgross@unix-os.sc.intel.com) and
Vamsi Krishna (IBM, vamsi_krishna@in.ibm.com).</p>

<p>Multi-threaded core dump patch for 2.4.17:</p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>multithreaded coredump functionality is enabled by a new sysctl   
  core_dumps_threads. (0 = off, 1 = on).</li>

<li>Core dump is started by the first thread which gets the signal</li>

<li>Threads are located by walking the entire task list looking for tasks
  with matching mm as that seems to be the only reliable way to locate
  other threads of a given task. In fact, IMO this is the only way
  until all user space libraries migrate to using thread groups
  provides by linux kernel (CLONE_THREAD).</li>

<li>Other threads are prevented from executing while core dump is in
  progress to improve the accuracy of the dumps. This is done without
  changing the state of the task. We set cpus_allowed in task struct
  to be 0 to stop a task from being scheduled and reset it to -1 for
  resume execution. This has the advantage to not depending on user
  space at all for correct functioning. IMO sending SIGSTOP to stop
  other threads does not work if the process is being run under a
  debugger. The only possible issue with using cpus_allowed is that
  we could lose task affinities once a core dump is taken. However,
  this is not a big deal as the task is going to die anyway fairly
  soon, which is why the dump was taken in the first place.</li>

<li>Support of SSE registers in the core dump</li>

<li>Code cleanups/reorg - breakup into smaller functions. Main function
  elf_core_dump() reorganized/cleaned up by moving filling up of elfhdr,
  prstatus, psinfo and notes to separate functions to make this very
  long function a little bit more readable and to reuse some code with
  the function dumping status of other threads.</li>

<li>Easy to port to other architectures. It just needs<br />
  ELF_CORE_COPY_TASK_REG - to copy task specific registers<br />
  ELF_CORE_COPY_FPREGS - to copy floating point registers and<br />
  ELF_CORE_COPY_XFPREGS - to copy extended fp registers(SSE) if present<br />
  ELF_CORE_SYNC - to sync up fpu status of other processors in SMP
                  systems if needed by a particular architecture.
                  Read the patch for more details.</li>

<li>We started with the tcore patches by John Jones and Jason Villarreal
  as base which were then heavily reworked. This patch is entirely
  different from theirs in pretty much all aspects.</li>

</ul>

</p>

<p>Current TODO list:</p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>May be remove reschedule_other_cpus in suspend_other_threads and do
  this as part of ELF_CORE_SYNC.  Rescheduling the other CPUs the way
  the current patch work may be over kill for accurate core files.
  Any thoughts?</li>

<li>Port to 2.5.x, specially the logic to stop other threads from executing
  while dumping is in progress.</li>

<li>Make the loop looking for other threads a little shorter by counting
  the number of tasks found and breaking out of for_each_task loop
  when it is equal to current->mm->mm_users.</li>

</ul>

</p>

<p>Some usage notes on this patch:</p>

<p>GDB 5.1 works with the core files produced, but only for Red Hat 7.2, and
only if the /lib/i686/libpthread.so library is hidden.  It turns out that
for IA32 RedHat, that there exists 2 libpthread.so files.  If the
/lib/i686/libpthread.so is loaded then the gdb post mortem debug will not
work.  We don't understand what's going on here, but its real.  Hide the
/lib/i686/libpthread.so such that the /lib/libpthread.so gets loaded at
debug time, and then debugger will work with the core file.  Any insights
into this is very much welcome.  This behavior is very mysterious to us.</p>

<p>Thanks to Bharata B Rao(IBM) for helping with capturing FPU registers and
testing and Suparna Bhattacharya(IBM) for design discussions.</p>

<p>Thanks to Tony Luck (Intel) and Jun Nakajima (Intel) for helping with the
review and design of the suspend_other_threads implementation.</p>

<p>This is currently i386 only, it has been unit tested on 1P-P4, 2P-P4,
and 4P-PIII systems. I haven't seen any failures so far, YMMV.</p>

<p>The patch is against kernel version 2.4.17. We will port this to latest
versions of the kernel if there is any interest.</p>

</quote>

<p>Pavel Machek had some implementation suggestions, and various folks
talked it over. At one point, Mark Gross mentioned that he'd begun work on
the Itanium version of the patch.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Disk Trouble At BitMover Affects BitKeeper Repositories"
  subject="bkbits.net down"
  archive=""
  posts="12"
  startdate="27 Mar 2002 10:53:27 -0800"
  enddate="29 Mar 2002 14:49:10 -0800"
>
<topic>BSD: FreeBSD</topic>
<topic>Clustering</topic>
<topic>Digital Video Broadcasting</topic>
<topic>Disk Arrays: RAID</topic>
<topic>Disks: IDE</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>
<notopic>Disks</notopic>

<p>Larry McVoy (posting as root) reported that bkbits.net was having problems.
He said:</p>

<quote who="Larry McVoy">

<p>It looks like we have a bad disk, I'm checking them now to figure out
if it is the the primary or backup data drive.  I'll run checks in all the
repositories if fsck doesn't find the problem so it may take a couple of
hours before we are back up.</p>

<p>In the not so distant future, we're moving the backup drive to a different
machine such that we can just flip machines when this happens but for now
you'll have to wait for a bit.</p>

</quote>

<p>Half a day later he reported (from his user account):</p>

<quote who="Larry McVoy">

<p>We did indeed lose the primary disk (IBM 40GB, I am starting to lose all
the respect I had for IBM drives, this is one of many that has failed on
me personally).  I have restored from the backup disk, and in the process
redone hardlinks across all the linux kernel trees, which saved about 5GB
(nice).  All trees which are now on bkbits.net check clean, which means BK
thinks all the files are there and that the checksums are correct, a fairly
reasonable indication that we are in good shape.</p>

<p>I wouldn't be a bit surprised if we have some permissions problems, mail
support@bitmover.com if you hit any and we'll fix things as we become aware
of them.  In fact, I know we have permissions problems but given that I've
been working on this for 12 hours straight, I'll get to it tomorrow.</p>

<p>There are a couple of trees which are missing files, both in Rik's
linuxvm.bkbits.net, I suspect an interrupted clone.  They are:<br />
        bk://linuxvm.bkits.net/linux-2.5-vmtidbits<br />
        bk://linuxvm.bkits.net/linux-2.5-writethrot<br />
Rik, ping me if you need help cleaning these up.</p>

<p>The ppc tree seems to be missing linuxppc_2_4, Paul/Tom/Troy/Cort, where
is this tree?  You'll want to get a copy back here, I suspect, so if you
are a PPC person and you have a recently updated version of linuxppc_2_4,
hang on to it.  We'll sort it out on the ppc mailing list.</p>

<p>We have lost a number of ssh keys.  We backed these up a while back but
we did not catch all of these.  The list is below, send me mail with your
ssh key / project name and I will restore them by hand.  We already had
plans in place for dealing with this problem so that it doesn't reoccur.</p>

<p>Sorry about the long downtime,  we are struggling with the economic downturn
like everyone else and hadn't put a hot spare in place yet.  We bought them,
in fact, I bought ten spare boxes for this sort of thing, but I have been
too busy to put them in place.  We'll get on it, we're aware that people
depend on this.</p>

<p>Here's the list of projects missing ssh keys:</p>

<p>        bcrlbits<br />
        freebsd-dvb (probably not Linux, eh? :)<br />
        lia64<br />
        linux-mtd<br />
        linux-srn<br />
        linux24 (I think this one is dead, right Marcelo?)<br />
        ltr<br />
        misc<br />
        nonblock<br />
        palinux<br />
        test1</p>

<p>If you are the admin for any of these projects, drop me a mail with your
ssh key and I'll add it back in.</p>

</quote>

<p>The next morning, he reported:</p>

<quote who="Larry McVoy">

<p>Leaving the drive off overnight "fixed it" enough that I am able to get some
of the data off.  It will be a couple hours before I know how much, but I did
manage to get all the ssh keys, project descriptions, and project statistics.
I'm now working on the actual data just in case there is one of the trees,
such as the ppc trees, that we can't find again.</p>

<p>The drive has bad blocks and when it hits them it goes into retry la la
land, so I won't know which data is bad until I hit the bad blocks.</p>

</quote>

<p>Henning P. Schmiedehausen remarked, <quote who="Henning
P. Schmiedehausen">You've learned now the hard way why integrity checks in an
application will never be able to replace things like backups or RAID systems.
Maybe you want to reread the flamewar^Wthread from some time ago with your
new knowledge.</quote> And Larry replied:</p>

<quote who="Larry McVoy">

<p>You obviously didn't read that thread.  Both in the context of BitKeeper
and in the context of normal data, you would have seen that we have backups,
we just have backups that we can verify are correct.  The repositories
on bkbits.net are automirrored after each incoming event.  There were a
few ppc ones which were not and we're still trying to figure out why, and
things like the .ssh keys were not completely backed up; we're fixing that
by putting that information into a BK repository so it will just automirror
like everything else.</p>

<p>I'm not sure why you yanking my chain, it's counter productive and flat
out rude after I just spent two days doing nothing but putting things back
together for kernel developers.  What, exactly, did you hope to accomplish?</p>

</quote>

<p>Henning said that he'd hoped for:</p>

<quote who="Henning P. Schmiedehausen">

<p>Awareness on your side that there are people presenting valid arguments to
you even if you don't agree. I did read the first posts of the thread up until
it degraded to "our application does every integrity check possible to verify
that the data is correct. So even if it gets corrupted, we will know. That's
why we better than the rest" and you shot down everyone presenting you with
other solutions with this arguments. Well, in this case, you obviously knew
that the data is incorrect (because the disk died, I'm really feeling with
you here, from my eight IBM DTLA disks, three have died, too and I fear
that the remaining five will also die) but all your checks couldn't help
you where just a few up-to-date backups would have.</p>

<p>Actually I'm a bit disappointed too, that you with all the professionalism
that you sprikle over this mailing list in every of your posts, run such a
showcase part of your business as bkbits.net on IDE disks without RAID. And
without clustering in case of emergency.</p>

</quote>

<p>Larry said, <quote who="Larry McVoy">Go reread my posts and stop wasting
my time.</quote> There was no reply. Elsewhere, only a day and a half after
his original post, Larry also reported:</p>

<quote who="Larry McVoy">

<p>I think we are back in action.  We put all the ssh stuff back.  As well
as the download statistics, take a peek at www.bkbits.net, your stuff should
be there.</p>

<p>Let me know if your project is missing anything, I know about the ppc tree,
we have that data, that's next.  But other than that, everything should be
back, let me know if that is not true.</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="2.4.19-pre4-ac2 Boot-Time Lockups With ALI15x3 Support"
  subject="[bug] 2.4.19-pre4-ac2 hang at boot with ALI15x3 chipset support"
  archive=""
  posts="9"
  startdate="27 Mar 2002 15:38:12 -0800"
  enddate="29 Mar 2002 02:01:46 -0800"
>
<topic>Debugging</topic>

<mention>Alan Cox</mention>

<p>James Mayer reported that 2.4.19-pre4-ac2 would hang at boot-time,
with the ALI15x3 driver on a Sony PCG-C1MV/M, immediately after printing
"ALI15X3: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later". Without ALI15x3 aupport
compiled in, the kernel would boot fine. Brian D Heaton had solved the same
problem on his Lifebook P-2040 with a patch he'd found online, and promised
to dig around for it. Andre Hedrick also said to James, <quote who="Andre
Hedrick">This problem is being addressed at ALI with the help of Sony.
I can not tell you the issue because I have not been authorized.</quote>
Elsewhere, Alan Cox led a charge on linux-kernel to hunt the bug down
publically. At one point Bruce Howard, another "me too", updated his page
of <a href="http://hale.org/~bhoward/issue_7/pcg-c1mrx.html">pcg-c1mr1 and
pcg-c1mv configuration</a> to include his solution to the problem; and James
confirmed that Bruce's solution worked for him as well.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="DMCA Impact On Kernel Development"
  subject="Changelog for 2.2.20?"
  archive=""
  posts="5"
  startdate="29 Mar 2002 11:24:44 -0800"
  enddate="29 Mar 2002 17:32:49 -0800"
>
<topic>Legal Issues</topic>

<mention>David Rees</mention>

<p>David Rees was unable to find the changelog for 2.2.20 on kernel.org, and
Alan Cox said, <quote who="Alan Cox">For non US citizens its available on <a
href="http://www.thefreeworld.net">http://www.thefreeworld.net</a></quote>
Rasmus Bag Hansen asked how it could be possible that the patch would
be legal in the US, but the changelog would not be. Mike Fedyk replied,
<quote who="Mike Fedyk">Basically, the politicians can't read the patch,
but they might be able to understand the summary...  Also, in many cases
the change that fixes the security hole doesn't make exploit ideas obvious.
While many times the security report includes the expliot itself.</quote>
End of thread.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Mailing List Troubles"
  subject="Majordomo@vger.kernel.org down?"
  archive=""
  posts="2"
  startdate="30 Mar 2002 09:32:54 -0800"
  enddate="30 Mar 2002 10:31:56 -0800"
>
<topic>Mailing List Administration</topic>
<notopic>Networking</notopic>

<p>George Anzinger reported, <quote who="George Anzinger">I seem to have
been "pruned" from the list sometime Wed. and Majordomo@verger.kernel.org
is ignoring my attempts to re subscribe me.  What gives?</quote> Matti
Aarnio replied:</p>

<quote who="Matti Aarnio">

<p>For past 5+ days VGER has been unable to connect any MX server of your
domain.  Why ?  I have no idea.  Diagnostics says: "connection timed out".</p>

<p>Somebody has tweaked a firewall there, and is now rejecting connections
with TCP/ECN ?</p>

<p>Use  http://vger.kernel.org/mxverify.html  tool to see how things are
working.</p>

</quote>

<p>EOT</p>

</section>

<section
  title="BKL Cleanup In Filesystem Code"
  subject="VFS locking changes in 2.5.7"
  archive=""
  posts="3"
  startdate="31 Mar 2002 12:12:50 -0800"
  enddate="31 Mar 2002 13:03:30 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: devfs</topic>

<mention>Richard Gooch</mention>

<p>Richard Gooch asked Alexander Viro about some changes Alexander had made
to the locking rules of the Virtual Filesystem (VFS). Richard noticed that
Alexander had moved the Big Kernel Lock (BKL) calls into the devfs code,
but that (Richard felt) not all of those locks were actually needed. He asked
Alexander what the thinking was behind the changes. Alexander replied:</p>

<quote who="Alexander Viro">

<p>See Documentation/filesystems/porting</p>

<p>BKL had been shifted inside several methods, so that filesystem code
itself had the same locking as it used to (i.e. code that used to be under
BKL stayed under it).  If your code doesn't need BKL - feel free to shrink
the area, but keep in mind that it used to be under BKL.</p>

<p>I didn't _add_ BKL - neither in devfs nor anywhere else.  lock_kernel()
is the boundary of the protected area and all that had happened is that this
area had slightly shrunken, so its boundaries are inside the method instead
of being around its caller.</p>

<p>Again, further shrinking is up to maintainers of the filesystems.</p>

</quote>

<p>This all made sense to Richard, and he said he'd look into removing some of
the excess locking in the devfs code. End Of Thread.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Quotas With Journaling"
  subject="Status of quotas on ext3 and reiser?"
  archive=""
  posts="3"
  startdate="01 Apr 2002 19:14:10 -0800"
  enddate="02 Apr 2002 08:56:54 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: ReiserFS</topic>
<topic>FS: ext3</topic>

<mention>Ken Brownfield</mention>

<p>Ken Brownfield very much wanted to use journalling on his 2 terabyte disk
array. But he also needed to use quotas, and wasn't sure if they worked
with either ext3 or reiserfs. He asked if those filesystems would support
quotas well enough to handle a production environment. Luigi Genoni replied,
<quote who="Luigi Genoni">I am using quota with reiserFS and quota tool 3.04
from slackware-current, and no problems at all (kernel 2.4.18).</quote> And
Andreas Dilger added, <quote who="Andreas Dilger">If you have a RH kernel (or
any other -ac kernel) you will get 32-bit UID support for quotas.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Status Of util-linux Maintainership"
  subject="[OT] who's maintaining util-linux?"
  archive=""
  posts="6"
  startdate="03 Apr 2002 06:38:08 -0800"
  enddate="03 Apr 2002 00:51:14 -0800"
>
<topic>Maintainership</topic>

<mention>Tigran Aivazian</mention>
<mention>Ragnar Hojland Espinosa</mention>
<mention>Adrian Bunk</mention>
<mention>Andries Brouwer</mention>
<mention>John Slee</mention>
<mention>Denis Vlasenko</mention>

<p>Denis Vlasenko had some problems with util-linux, but was unable to contact
the maintainers. He asked if anyone was in charge of that project. John Slee
found some references to Adrian Bunk in the Debian package, but a couple folks
pointed out that the Debian package was not the actual upstream project,
only the packaging of it for a particular distribution. Ragnar Hojland
Espinosa seemed to recall that Andries Brouwer was the actual maintainer,
and Tigran Aivazian also said this. Andries did not come forward, however.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Getting Rid Of The BKL"
  subject="[RFC][PATCH] BKL reduction in do_exit"
  archive=""
  posts="3"
  startdate="03 Apr 2002 09:12:39 -0800"
  enddate="03 Apr 2002 10:10:31 -0800"
>

<p>In the ongoing effort to replace the big kernel lock (BKL) with various
less drastic forms of locking, Dave Hansen posted a patch and announced:</p>

<quote who="Dave Hansen">

<p>A week ago, I posted this: <a
href="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=linux.kernel.3CA20C9B.20309%40us.ibm.com">http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=linux.kernel.3CA20C9B.20309%40us.ibm.com</a></p>

<p>Nobody had anything to sayabout it, so here's a patch.  It moves the
disassociate_ctty(1) up, and releases the BKl after it gets done.  Is this
a sane thing to do, or do some of those exit_*() functions still need the
tty?</p>

<p>The patch reduces hold times of the BKL in do_exit() by a factor of 100.
They were on the order of 200us, now they're about 1.5us.  However, those
numbers were on Martin Bligh's NUMA-Q box, so they represent a serious
worst-case scenario.</p>

</quote>

<p>Linus Torvalds replied:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>I'd prefer to have the BKL just moved into the functions that need it,
and removed altogether from do_exit().</p>

<p>That's especially true as I don't know if sem_exit() actually needs the
BKL any more at all - so that if it doesn't, we can just remove it from
there (at which point it is a local implementation issue, rather than a
cross-module thing).</p>

<p>The disassociate_tty thing falls under a similar heading - we're going
to have to fix up the tty layer some day anyway, let's make the BKL detail
a tty layer internal thing.</p>

</quote>

<p>Dave agreed with this and posted a new patch. End of thread.</p>

</section>

</kc>

