<?xml version="1.0" ?>

<kc>

<title>Kernel Traffic</title>

<author contact="mailto:zbrown@tumblerings.org">Zack Brown</author>

<issue num="163" date="21 Apr 2002 23:00:00 -0800" />

<stats posts="1133" size="4984" contrib="397" multiples="178" lastweek="148">

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<section
  title="Non-BitKeeper Patches Preferred For Development"
  subject="ReiserFS Bug Fixes 3 of 6 (Please apply all 6)"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0204.0/0916.html"
  posts="13"
  startdate="05 Apr 2002 12:27:38 -0800"
  enddate="13 Apr 2002 12:03:35 -0800"
>
<topic>Development Policy</topic>
<topic>FS</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<mention>Hans Reiser</mention>

<p>Hans Reiser posted a BitKeeper-generated patch, and Linus Torvalds replied:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>Please don't use bk patches, they have turned out to be pretty much
unusable.</p>

<p>Either make a (controlled) bk tree available for pulling, or just use
old-fashioned patches.</p>

</quote>

<p>Larry McVoy agreed that BitKeeper patches wouldn't work under some common
circumstances, and recommended Linus' solution as well. He described:</p>

<quote who="Larry McVoy">

<p>BK won't let you accept a patch unless the receiving repository has the
parent of the patch.  In other words, this won't work:</p>

<blockquote>
        bk clone bk://linux.bkbits.net/linux-2.5<br />
        &lt;make some changes&gt;<br />
        bk commit (or bk citool)        # creates changeset 1.800<br />
        &lt;make some changes&gt;<br />
        bk commit (or bk citool)        # creates changeset 1.801<br />
&#160;<br />
        # Now you want to send the second patch to Linus so you do a:<br />
        bk send -r+ - | mail linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
</blockquote>

<p>That will fail when Linus tries to accept the patch, because he doesn't
have your 1.800.</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="Status Of HP ScanJet 2200c Support"
  subject="HP scanjet 2200c support"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0204.1/1297.html"
  posts="2"
  startdate="15 Apr 2002 10:07:58 -0800"
  enddate="15 Apr 2002 10:38:30 -0800"
>
<topic>Printers</topic>

<mention>Eric Weigle</mention>

<p>Pablo Alcaraz asked if the HP ScanJet 2200c was
supported under Linux, and Eric Weigle pointed him to <a
href="http://scanjet2200c.sourceforge.net/">http://scanjet2200c.sourceforge.net/</a>
and <a
href="http://www.mostang.com/sane/">http://www.mostang.com/sane/</a>.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Some Preemption Discussion"
  subject="[PATCH] 2.5: don't miss a preemption"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0204.1/1320.html"
  posts="3"
  startdate="15 Apr 2002 11:58:24 -0800"
  enddate="15 Apr 2002 13:25:24 -0800"
>
<topic>Real-Time</topic>
<topic>SMP</topic>

<mention>Hugh Dickins</mention>

<p>Robert Love posted a patch and explained:</p>

<quote who="Robert Love">

<p>Current kernel preemption code opens a small window between the check
for need_resched in schedule and the setting of preempt_count to zero in
preempt_schedule.  While this window is generally short (a few cycles) the
resulting period of non-preemptibility could be as long as the next timer
tick - much longer, in fact, if a lock is obtained in the interim.</p>

<p>This patch checks for need_resched in preempt_schedule after setting
preempt_count back to zero, before returning.  The overhead is negligible
and it is crucial to never miss a preemption opportunity.</p>

</quote>

<p>Out of curiosity, Hugh Dickins asked why it was so important never to miss a
preemption opportunity. Robert replied:</p>

<quote who="Robert Love">

<p>Two main reasons:</p>

<p>

<ol>

<li>In 2.5, we have a kernel preemption model that makes the fully preemptible,
subject to SMP locking constraints and a few other rules.  Without this patch,
we break this model and do not allow preemption when it is in fact legal.</li>

<li>Like I said, it may be awhile before we can preempt again.  If we take
a lock after return from schedule but before the next interrupt, it can
be many tens (or hundreds) of milliseconds before we release the lock and
subsequently preempt.  If need_resched was set in response to an important
real-time application, the wait can be detrimental.  Servicing apps as soon
as they become runnable is the point of preempt-kernel, anyhow.</li>

</ol>

</p>

<p>It is not crucial in the sense we break anything; merely that we are working
toward providing very efficient response and dispatch to interactive and
real-time applications and we _must_ respond to them as soon as possible.</p>

</quote>

<p>End of thread.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Best Compiler To Use For TriCore Linux Port"
  subject="Kernel 2.4.x and gcc version"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0204.2/0050.html"
  posts="2"
  startdate="16 Apr 2002 03:25:34 -0800"
  enddate="16 Apr 2002 03:49:27 -0800"
>
<topic>Compiler</topic>
<topic>Porting Linux</topic>

<p>Yannis Mitsos asked:</p>

<quote who="Yannis Mitsos">

<p>I am a member of a small team which is trying to port Linux to Infineon's
TriCore processor.  The gcc version that is available for the aforementioned
processor is 2.8.1.  On the other hand the aforementioned processor does
not embed a MMU, so we are using the uClinux patch with the 2.4.x kernel.</p>

<p>I am wondering if with the 2.8.1 version we will be able to obtain a
reliable 2.4.x kernel. According to the /Documentation/Changes file the gcc
2.95.3 is required...</p>

<p>Between the gcc version 2.8.1 and the 2.95.3 some extra flags and options
have been added, but are all these requisite for ALL the processors ???</p>

</quote>

<p>Alan Cox replied, <quote who="Alan Cox">On the whole probably not.</quote>
But he added, <quote who="Alan Cox">gcc 2.95.3 is the one that is minimal
for the x86 processor core. How it behaves with other platforms is going
to vary. Many of the problems with the older compiler where with register
allocation, which is a very big x86 problem but much less of an issue on
other compilers.</quote> End of thread.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Status Of ServeRAID Maintainership And Code"
  subject="[PATCH] fix ips driver compile problems"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0204.2/0088.html"
  posts="11"
  startdate="16 Apr 2002 07:05:25 -0800"
  enddate="16 Apr 2002 11:12:10 -0800"
>
<topic>Development Philosophy</topic>
<topic>Disk Arrays: RAID</topic>
<topic>Disks: SCSI</topic>

<p>Dave Hansen posted a patch that had been floating around internally at IBM
for some time. He said, <quote who="Dave Hansen">it applies to 2.5.8 and the
ServeRAID driver works just fine with it
applied.  Without it, the driver fails to compile.</quote> In a later post he
added:</p>

<quote who="Dave Hansen">

<p>I have no official connection to the  writing of this driver.  It's a big
company :)  I'm most interested in this because I have an old ServeRAID card
at home.</p>

<p>I know that none of the real authors is actively working on fixing this.</p>

<p>Can this be accepted as a band-aid until the maintainers decide to maintain
a 2.5 driver, or are we pushing authors to rewrite drivers which don't use
the new DMA scheme?</p>

</quote>

<p>Alan Cox said, <quote who="Alan Cox">Its not a band aid, its a bug. It
happens to work by freak chance on x86.  Its much better it stays visibly
broken until its fixed.</quote> But close by, Linus Torvalds said:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>Quite frankly, since after several months of being broken, nobody has
stepped up to actually fix it, I am most definitely going to accept the
band-aid solutions to SCSI drivers that will thus only work on x86.</p>

<p>"Not acceptable" is when broken drivers means that people can't test the
features they _care_ about. Apparently nobody seems to care about the SCSI
driver itself..</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="Kernel Source Tree Reorganizations"
  subject="[PATCH] i386 arch subdivision into machine types for 2.5.8"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0204.2/0106.html"
  posts="11"
  startdate="16 Apr 2002 07:55:48 -0800"
  enddate="17 Apr 2002 08:31:44 -0800"
>
<topic>PCI</topic>
<topic>Power Management: ACPI</topic>
<topic>SMP</topic>
<topic>Source Tree</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>
<topic>VisWS</topic>

<p>James Bottomley announced some reorganization of the kernel source tree. He
said:</p>

<quote who="James Bottomley">

<p>This patch tries to split arch/i386 up into machine specific directories
(similar to the way arch/arm is done).  The idea is to separate out
those machines which don't look like standard PCs (particularly from an
SMP standpoint).  For the current kernel, all it really does is to get the
visws stuff into a separate directory (arch/i386/visws).  I've also taken
some files which aren't going to be used by non-pc SMP machines (mainly
related to mpbios and ioapic) and placed them into arch/i386/generic.</p>

<p>The patch goes much further than visws needs, mainly because it now allows
me to add my voyager stuff in a separate arch/i386/voyager directory with
virtually no disturbance of the main line code.  I'm afraid there are also
still four VISWS defines in arch/i386/kernel/smpboot.c because it wasn't
obvious to me how to get rid of them simply.</p>

<p>The 269k diff file (large because it has a lot of file moves) is at</p>

<p><a
href="http://www.hansenpartnership.com/voyager/files/arch-split-2.5.8.diff">http://www.hansenpartnership.com/voyager/files/arch-split-2.5.8.diff</a></p>

<p>There's also a bitkeeper repository with all this in at</p>

<p><a
href="http://linux-voyager.bkbits.net/arch-split-2.5">http://linux-voyager.bkbits.net/arch-split-2.5</a></p>

<p>I haven't done anything about the other half of i386/arch reform which is
splitting the PC directory up into bus types, but I believe Patrick Mochel
is thinking about this.</p>

</quote>

<p>Eric W. Biederman replied:</p>

<quote who="Eric W. Biederman">

<p>A couple of comments.</p>

<p>
<ul>

<li>There is no way to build a generic kernel, that just needs a command
line to select the architecture.  Something that is important for installers.
Even better would auto detection of the platform from firmware information,
but you can't always do that.</li>

<li>By just allowing redirecting setup_memory_region you don't allow for
architectures that don't have the 384K memory hole.</li>

<li>The hooks you add aren't used and are so generic it isn't obvious what
they are supposed do from their names.</li>

<li>setup_arch.h is nasty.  What code it has depends on what it is defined
when it is included.  Couldn't 2 headers to this job better?  Or better yet
can't you just use function calls?</li>

</ul>
</p>

<p>And of course you don't look at allowing different firmware implementations,
but I'm doing that, so it is covered. :)</p>

</quote>

<p>Elsewhere, Patrick Mochel summarized his own work:</p>

<quote who="Patrick Mochel">

<p>Not necessarily bus types, but close.</p>

<p>I've done three sets of cleanups in the arch/i386/kernel/ directory:</p>

<p>

<ul>
<li>x86 CPU</li>
<li>mtrr</li>
<li>PCI</li>
</ul>
</p>

<p>Each one does similar things to those drivers: moves the support into
subdirectories, and splits the monolithic files into platform-specific
modules.</p>

<p>Doing this has several advantages:</p>

<p>
<ul>
<li>Only the code for your platform gets compiled in</li>
<li>Resulting code has fewer conditional compilation constructs</li>
<li>Resulting code is more extensible and modular</li>
<li>Fewer confliciting changes in files with mulitple contributors.</li>
<li>It's easier to figure out what the heck is going on</li>
</ul>
</p>

<p>The main motivation behind this has been the PCI driver, especially with
the numerous conflicting changes that I've seen both personally, and with the
various ACPI and NUMA changes.  I've been wanting to do something like this
for about a year. About a month ago, I finally just sat down and did it.</p>

<p>The patches can all be found at</p>

<p><a
href="http://kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/mochel/patches/">http://kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/mochel/patches/</a></p>

<p>Unfortunately, maintaining these massive changes is time consuming, and
conflicting with other goals and timelines. The only one I really care about
is the PCI driver. I've had a chance to up-port it to 2.5.8, and should work
for most people (though I've only tested it on single and dual x86 boxes
w/o ACPI support)</p>

<p>The CPU cleanups are against ~2.5.6, and most likely won't apply to the
current tree. Conflicts tend to be obvious, and easily fixable, if anyone
is willing to up-port it.</p>

<p>Ditto for the mtrr driver, though it's pretty stale (~1 month old),
and likely to have more conflicts.</p>

<p>If there is serious interest, I'll up-port them to the latest kernel and
export BK trees.</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="Using BitKeeper And CVS For Framebuffer Development"
  subject="Fbdev Bitkeeper repository"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0204.2/0218.html"
  posts="16"
  startdate="16 Apr 2002 14:46:12 -0800"
  enddate="17 Apr 2002 11:17:41 -0800"
>
<topic>Framebuffer</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<mention>Larry McVoy</mention>
<mention>Roman Zippel</mention>

<p>James Simmons announced that he'd created a BitKeeper repository for the
framebuffer layer, and offered to give access to folks who sent him their
public-key. M. R. Brown replied, <quote who="M. R. Brown">Please tell us
that primary framebuffer/input/console development will continue in the CVS
drop-in tree on SourceForge?  Bitkeeper is unable to support this (easier, more
efficient) style of development.</quote> Larry McVoy asked why M. R. thought
CVS was easier and more efficient than BitKeeper, and the two of them argued
back-and-forth for awhile, with Roman Zippel chiming in eventually that this
was off-topic and should be taken to a more relevant mailing list. But at one
point, after M. R. and Larry had been going at it for a couple of days, James
said, <quote who="James Simmons">To answer the question are we going to drop
CVS drop in support of the linux console project. No!! The reasons have nothing
to do with politics or who is better. The reason for this is some people want
to use CVS and don't want to spend the time learning bitkeeper. That is their
choose. I don't want to force anyone to do something they don't want. Have
both bitkeeper and CVS is a plus in many ways to many people.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Trouble Using Preemption On 2.5.8 SMP Systems"
  subject="2.5.8: preemption + SMP broken ?"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0204.2/0448.html"
  posts="3"
  startdate="17 Apr 2002 09:52:53 -0800"
  enddate="17 Apr 2002 11:04:03 -0800"
>
<topic>Real-Time</topic>
<topic>SMP</topic>

<mention>Dipankar Sarma</mention>

<p>Dipankar Sarma reported that his 4 CPU 486 would hang at boot, if SMP and
preemption were enabled in the kernel. Robert Love posted a patch, explaining,
<quote who="Robert Love">all my testing is on SMP.  The problem manifested
itself in 2.5.8-pre when some changes where made to the migration code.
The race is in the migration code - I am not sure it is preempts fault, per
se, but the attached patch should fix it.  It is pending with Linus for the
next release.</quote> Dipankar tried it out and reported complete success.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Setting Process CPU Affinity"
  subject="binding a process to a processor"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0204.2/0525.html"
  posts="2"
  startdate="17 Apr 2002 16:04:49 -0800"
  enddate="17 Apr 2002 16:10:22 -0800"
>
<topic>SMP</topic>

<p>Lee Chin how to make sure a particular process would stay on a particular CPU
in an SMP system, and Robert Love replied:</p>

<quote who="Robert Love">

<p>In 2.5, there is the system call sched_setaffinity.  It is rather new so
your libraries do not support it - see example code and headers at:</p>

<p><a
href="ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/rml/cpu-affinity">ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/rml/cpu-affinity</a></p>

<p>For 2.4, there is not yet such an interface.  At the above URL, you can
find a proc-based and a syscall-based interface for setting and retrieving
affinity.</p>

</quote>

<p>End of thread.</p>

</section>

</kc>

