<?xml version="1.0" ?>

<kc>

<title>Kernel Traffic</title>

<author contact="mailto:zbrown@tumblerings.org">Zack Brown</author>

<issue num="207" date="02 Mar 2003 00:00:00 -0800" />

<stats posts="1847" size="10294" contrib="444" multiples="227" lastweek="178">

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<section
  title="Linux 2.5.62 Released"
  subject="Linux v2.5.62"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/0404.html"
  posts="94"
  startdate="17 Feb 2003 15:18:43 -0800"
  enddate="27 Feb 2003 15:32:43 -0800"
>
<topic>Kernel Build System</topic>
<topic>SMP</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<p>Linus Torvalds announced <a href="">2.5.62</a>:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>Hmm.. Mostly lots of small updates, although the merge with Andrew
included the RCU dcache patches from IBM that he has carried along for a
while (ie fairly fundamnetal, but also very well tested).</p>

<p>ARM, PPC, PPC64, alpha, kbuild.</p>

<p>Oh, and as a sign that 2.6.x really _is_ approaching, people have started
sending me spelling fixes. Kernel coders are apparently all atrocious
spellers, and for some reason the spelling police always comes out of the
woodwork when stable releases get closer.</p>

</quote>

<p>Chris Wedgwood reported that all kernels after 2.5.59, and possibly earlier,
would spontaneously reboot under heavy loads. The 2.5.59-mjb4 seemed pretty
stable to him though. Linus asked, <quote who="Linus Torvalds">It would be
interesting to hear exactly when the trouble started. And if plain 2.5.59
does it (which is unclear from your description), but 59-mjb4 doesn't, then
that's an interesting data point.</quote> Chris clarified that 2.5.59 did have
the problem, and 2.5.59-mjb4 did not. However, a bit later on, he said:</p>

<quote who="Chris Wedgwood">

<p>After much testing, which is still in progress it would seem that
*maybe* mjb4 does have the problem too, although it's much harder to
hit.  Please note that this is a single data point where for other
kernels I have two or more occurrences of spontaneous reboots.</p>

<p>I've been checking older kernels...  it would seem the problem first
occurs in 2.5.53 (that is 2.5.53 through 2.5.62-bk all reboot for me).
2.5.51 doesn't appear to and thus far neither does 2.5.52.</p>

<p>I say thus far, because the problem usually appears after about 15
minutes of compiling, but it sometimes takes a little longer.  I'm
running 2.5.52 now and after 45 minutes it's still going.</p>

<p>As to what difference it might be between '52 and '53 I have no idea.
I had a quick look and the changes there are considerable.</p>

<p>I've tried different compiles, with and without preempt, and and
without IO-APIC and trimming down the kernel...</p>

</quote>

<p>He posted in reply to himself shortly thereafter, to say that 2.5.52
did show the behavior after all. He said, <quote who="Chris Wedgwood">I'm
back to 2.5.51 and I'll beat it hard and see what happens.  I guess until I
(or someone else who sees this) can get some concrete data points you'll
have to ignore this.</quote> Linus had a suggestion for how to track down
the bug. He said, <quote who="Linus Torvalds">if it was getting hard to
trigger with 2.5.52 too, things might be getting hairier and hairier.. If
it becomes hard enough to trigger as to be practically nondeterministic,
a better approach might be to just go back to -mjb4, and even if it is still
there in -mjb4 try to see which part of the patch seems to be making it more
stable. That might give us more clues, and it's a much smaller problem set
than going arbitrarily far back in the 2.5.x series.</quote> He added in reply
to himself:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>Btw, this is particularly true if it takes you potentially hours to test
something like 2.5.51 for stability, but you can reboot 2.5.59 at will in
ten minutes.</p>

<p>In that case, you can test several vrsions of "2.5.59 + partial -mjb
patches" much more quickly than you can walk backwards in 2.5.x, and try to
pinpoint the "this part of -mjb makes it much less likely to reboot".</p>

<p>Also, with the -mjb patch there are some new configuration options. For
example, CONFIG_100HZ on -mjb has very different behaviour than a plain
2.5.59 kernel that defaults to 1kHz timer clock, and maybe the reason -mjb
seems more stable is that you may have selected a configuration option that
made -mjb act differently.</p>

<p>Regardless, it would be very interesting to hear what the -mjb split-down
results would be. Even if the answer might be "at 1kHz timer it is unstable,
at 100Hz it is stable" (and if that were to be it, then you'd have to
walk backwards to 2.5.24 to find the old 2.5.x kernel that had a slow tick
rate).</p>

</quote>

<p>Chris reported that 2.5.51 also showed the spontaneous reboot, although
it took almost an hour to induce. At this point Linus said, <quote who="Linus
Torvalds">Ok, I wrote up this doublefault task-gate handler which has gotten
some very very minimal testing, and which is probably totally buggered on
SMP machines etc, but which has caught at least one double-fault on one of
my test-machines (which I forced to double-fault by making %esp contain an
invalid value in kernel mode).</quote> He thought it might give Chris some
useful debugging information just before the crash.</p>

<p>A bunch of people posted tons of debugging output, and it seemed as though a
lot of headway was made toward finding various problems in the kernel, but
Chris' spontaneous reboots remained elusive.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Configuration Option For All SCSI Low-Level Drivers"
  subject="[PATCH 2.5.62]: 2/3: Make SCSI low-level drivers also a seperate, complete selectable submenu"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/0551.html"
  posts="9"
  startdate="18 Feb 2003 05:02:10 -0800"
  enddate="19 Feb 2003 12:33:39 -0800"
>
<topic>Disks: SCSI</topic>

<mention>Christoph Hellwig</mention>
<mention>Marc-Christian Petersen</mention>

<p>Marc-Christian Petersen posted a patch to make all SCSI low-level
drivers a separate configuration submenu, so they could all be disabled
at once. Christoph Hellwig said people could already choose to disable
CONFIG_SCSI, but Bill Davidsen replied, <quote who="Bill Davidsen">Isn't
that going to disable all of SCSI? I think the intention may be to drop
hardware drivers and just use ide-scsi, although I might be misreading the
original intent.  There are a fair number of tape/CD/DVD devices out there
which you might run SCSI. I many cases will run SCSI or not at all.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Configuration Option For All Ethernet 1000Mbit NICs"
  subject="[PATCH 2.5.62]: 1/3: Make Ethernet 1000Mbit also a seperate, complete selectable submenu"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/0535.html"
  posts="4"
  startdate="18 Feb 2003 05:02:12 -0800"
  enddate="19 Feb 2003 05:21:59 -0800"
>
<topic>Networking</topic>

<mention>Jeff Garzik</mention>
<mention>Marc-Christian Petersen</mention>

<p>Marc-Christian Petersen posted a patch to make Ethernet 1000Mbit support
a separate configuration submenu, so all 1000 Mbit NICs could be disabled
at once.  Jeff Garzik said he'd apply the patch, though he said he'd prefer a
different name. Marc-Christian had used "NET_ETHERNETGBIT", and Jeff suggested
"NET_GIGE" or something short like that.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Kernel Panics In Morse Code"
  subject="[PATCH] morse code panics for 2.5.62"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/0548.html"
  posts="6"
  startdate="18 Feb 2003 05:50:38 -0800"
  enddate="19 Feb 2003 01:07:43 -0800"
>

<mention>Vojtech Pavlik</mention>

<p>Tomas Szepe posted support for displaying kernel panics in morse code, for
2.5.62; he said:</p>

<quote who="Tomas Szepe">

<p>

<ul>

<li>Completely arch-independent.</li>

<li>No longer touches atkbd (as suggested by Vojtech Pavlik).</li>

<li>With minimal changes to existing code.</li>

<li>Introducing morse code ops -- a good hack value (MOST IMPORTANT!!).</li>

<li>Useful to people who spend most of their time in X.</li>

</ul>

</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="Kernel Errata List"
  subject="[ANNOUNCE] 2.5 kernel errata list"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/0656.html"
  posts="3"
  startdate="18 Feb 2003 11:13:59 -0800"
  enddate="21 Feb 2003 10:19:50 -0800"
>
<topic>Bug Tracking</topic>

<mention>Rik van Riel</mention>

<p>Paul Larson announced:</p>

<quote who="Paul Larson">

<p>Based on a suggestion and several people saying they would find it useful,
I'm keeping a kernel errata page on the Linux Test Project website at <a
href="http://ltp.sourceforge.net/errata">http://ltp.sourceforge.net/errata</a></p>

<p>I'll try to maintain a list of known fixes for blocking problems with the
most recent kernel on this page.  By "blocking", I mean anything severe enough
to keep you from testing the kernel (can't compile, panic on boot, catches
your hair on fire, etc).  This is _not_ a replacement for the bug tracking
system.  I won't put anything here that doesn't have a fix or a workaround.
So if you're looking for an exhaustive list of problems for a given kernel,
look at bugme, but if all you want is a list of known fixes to get you up and
running quickly, the errata list should give you a quick and easy answer.</p>

<p>If you have any suggestions to make this more useful or if you see anything
I've missed, please let me know.</p>

</quote>

<p>Rik van Riel asked how this was different from the Bugzilla database already
in place, and Paul explained, <quote who="Paul Larson">The bugzilla database
tracks problems, whether they are fixed or not.  The errata list aims to be
a quick (hopefully short) list of known fixes to problems.  Bugzilla also
tracks all types of problems where the errata list will usually only contain
fixes to major, blocking problems.  Basically I'm trying to keep a list that
will help people quickly find the diffs against releases that will help them
get up and running enough to test with.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Accessing BitKeeper Without BitKeeper"
  subject="accessing bitkeeper without bitkeeper"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/0873.html"
  posts="1"
  startdate="19 Feb 2003 07:11:43 -0800"
>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<p>Pavel Machek announced:</p>

<quote who="Pavel Machek">

<p>With attached patch to CSSC (www.sf.net/projects/cssc), and</p>

<p>rsync -zav --delete nl.linux.org::kernel/linux-2.5 linux-2.5</p>

<p>you can download local copy of whole linux-2.5 repository, and you can
access it, too.</p>

</quote>

<p>There was no reply.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Documentation For The Kernel Bug Database"
  subject="[ANNOUNCE] Kernel Bug Database documentation on-line"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/0998.html"
  posts="1"
  startdate="19 Feb 2003 17:15:31 -0800"
>

<p>John Bradford announced:</p>

<quote who="John Bradford">

<p>I've put some extensive documentation for the latest version of my Kernel
Bug Database online at:</p>

<p><a
href="http://grabjohn.com/kernelbugdatabase/documentation/">http://grabjohn.com/kernelbugdatabase/documentation/</a></p>

<p>The latest version of the Kernel Bug Database is at the usual location:</p>

<p><a
href="http://grabjohn.com/kernelbugdatabase/">http://grabjohn.com/kernelbugdatabase/</a></p>

<p>Main new features since version 2.0:</p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>A slightly redesigned layout that loads more quickly</li>

<li>Kernel versions are now sorted numerically by version number order</li>

<li>The list of all bug reports or confirmed bugs on the search screens has
been replaced with a list of the five most recent</li>

<li>Search results now include status information for the latest tested
kernel versions, not the latest versions.</li>

<li>Automatic archiving of bug reports after four weeks   </li>

<li>An active/archive flag for bug reports and confirmed bugs</li>

<li>A count of the number of returned bug reports, confirmed bugs or patches
for each search</li>

<li>A count of the number of non-returned due to being archived bug reports
or confirmed bugs for each relevant search</li>

<li>The searching of confirmed bugs page now replaces the initial main
menu</li>

<li>An 'include status information for a particular kernel version' toggle
in bug reports and confirmed bug search pages</li>

</ul>

</p>

<p>I've written the code for automatic testing of patches to see whether they
will apply to various kernel versions, but it will not be enabled until the
machine that hosts <a href="http://grabjohn.com/">http://grabjohn.com/</a>
is replaced with a faster one with more disk space :-).</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="IPMI Driver Version 18 Released"
  subject="IPMI driver version 18 release"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/1021.html"
  posts="1"
  startdate="19 Feb 2003 20:09:06 -0800"
>

<p>Corey Minyard announced:</p>

<quote who="Corey Minyard">

<p>I found a few stupid bugs in the IPMI driver dealing with certain error
cases, and this also contains the documentation updates that I have not sent
to Linus enough times to be included yet :-).</p>

<p>The 2.5 version is attached. The 2.4 version is at: <a
href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/openipmi/">http://sourceforge.net/projects/openipmi/</a></p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="FUSE (Filesystem In Userspace) 1.0 Released"
  subject="[ANNOUNCE] Filesystem in Userspace (FUSE) 1.0 stable release"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/1061.html"
  posts="1"
  startdate="20 Feb 2003 02:59:54 -0800"
>

<p>Miklos Szeredi announced:</p>

<quote who="Miklos Szeredi">

<p>FUSE lets you write your very own filesystem, as an ordinary program.
It has a simple yet comprehensive interface, and provides an easy way to
create a virtual filesystem for just about any application.</p>

<p>Example applications include: automatic CD changer fs, remote filesystems
for handhelds, filesystem view for databases, etc...</p>

<p>FUSE currently works on all 2.4.x kernels (up to 2.4.20 and possibly later).
Installation is simple, no kernel patching or recompilation is needed.
Documentation for the interface and example programs are provided in the
package.</p>

<p>You can download the latest version from:</p>

<p><a
href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/avf">http://sourceforge.net/projects/avf</a></p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="/proc Reorganization And Speedup"
  subject="[patch] procfs/procps threading performance speedup, 2.5.62"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/1148.html"
  posts="28"
  startdate="20 Feb 2003 08:33:24 -0800"
  enddate="24 Feb 2003 04:52:38 -0800"
>
<topic>Big O Notation</topic>
<topic>FS: procfs</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<mention>Alexander Viro</mention>

<p>Ingo Molnar announced:</p>

<quote who="Ingo Molnar">

<p>Lots of people have requested that threads should show up in /proc again,
to be able to look at per-thread CPU usage, activity, and generally, to
ease the debugging of threaded apps.</p>

<p>the main problem with threads in /proc is that there's a big slowdown when
using lots of threads. Here are some runtime numbers in seconds, under
2.5.62, on a 525MHz PIII box:</p>

<pre>   # of threads (*):  1000    2000    4000    8000    16000
   --------------------------------------------------------   
   ps                 0.77    1.52    3.13    6.44    13.81
   ps -axm            0.93    1.85    3.78    7.73    18.37
   top -d 0 -n 0      0.75    1.53    3.23    7.60    22.12</pre>

<p>[ (*): the system is completely idle, all threads are sleeping. Overhead
is combined system and userspace overhead measured via 'time'.]</p>

<p>ie. the overhead is really massive, eg. with 16K threads running, procps
is basically unusable for any administration or debugging work. And there
are users that want 50K or more threads. So clearly, this state of procfs
and procps is unacceptable - who would use 'top' to check a system's state
if a single screen-refresh takes 22 seconds?!</p>

<p>in the above timings, only 'ps -axm' is actually displaying every thread,
all other commands produce only a few lines of output. The reason of the
overhead is two-fold:</p>

<p>1) there's significant kernel overhead in reading large /proc directories,
   the overhead of many readdir()'s is O(N^2). The main overhead is in
   get_pid_list(), which has to loop over an increasing number of threads
   to find the next intended batch of PIDs.</p>

<p>to fix this overhead i've introduced a 'lookup cursor' cookie, which is
cached in filp-&gt;private_data, across readdir() [getdents64()] calls. If
the cursor matches then we skip all the overhead of skipping threads. If
the cursor is not available then we fall back to the old-style skipping
algorithm.</p>

<p>2) procps is forced to parse every thread in /proc to build up accurate
   'process CPU usage' counters. The parsing and accessing of every
   /proc/PID/stat file is necessary because CPU statistics are scattered
   across all threads.</p>

<p>the fix for this is two-fold. First, it must be possible for procps to
separate 'threads' from 'processes' without having to go into 16 thousand
directories. I solved this by prefixing 'threads' (ie. non-group-leader
threads) with a dot ('.') character in the /proc listing:</p>

<pre> $ ls -a /proc
 .      16994   .17078  412  7          execdomains  locks       stat
 ..     16995   .17079  460  8          filesystems  meminfo     swaps
 1      17031   .17080  469  9          fs           misc        sys
 16864  17033   .17081  5    92         ide          mounts      sysvipc
 16866  17034   .17082  515  buddyinfo  interrupts   mtrr        tty
 16867  17072   17113   516  bus        iomem        net         uptime
 16946  .17073  2       517  cmdline    ioports      partitions  version
 16948  .17074  3       518  cpuinfo    irq          profile     vmstat
 16949  .17075  390     519  devices    kcore        scsi
 16989  .17076  4       520  dma        kmsg         self
 16992  .17077  400     6    driver     loadavg      slabinfo</pre>

<p>the .17073 ... .17082 entries belong to the thread-group 17072.</p>

<p>The key here is for procps to be able to parse threads without having to
call into the kernel 16K times. The dot-approach also has the added
benefit of 'hiding' threads in the default 'ls /proc' listing.</p>

<p>the other change needed was the ability to read comulative CPU usage
statistics from the thread group leader. I've introduced 4 new fields in
/proc/PID/stat for that purpose, the kernel keeps those uptodate across
fork/exit and in the timer interrupt - it's very low-overhead.</p>

<p>the attached patch, against 2.5.62-BK, implements these kernel features.</p>

<p>Alex Larsson has modified procps for these new kernel capabilities, the
new procps package (or the patch against upstream procps) can be
downloaded from:</p>

<p>        <a href="http://people.redhat.com/alexl/procps/">http://people.redhat.com/alexl/procps/</a></p>

<p>here are the performance measurements (with stock procps+procfs numbers in
paranthesis)</p>

<pre>   # of threads:       1000     2000     4000      8000      16000
   ----------------------------------------------------------------
   ps                  0.02     0.03     0.03      0.03       0.04
                      (0.77)   (1.52)   (3.13)    (6.44)    (13.81)

   ps -axm             0.89     1.72     3.40      6.87      15.57
                      (0.93)   (1.85)   (3.78)    (7.73)    (18.37)

   top -d 0 -n 0       0.11     0.12     0.12      0.13       0.16
                      (0.75)   (1.53)   (3.23)    (7.60)    (22.12)</pre>

<p>eg. with 16K threads running in the background, a single 'top'
screen-refresh got more than 130 times faster. A simple 'ps' got more than
340 times faster ... Even the 'ps -axm' (which displays all threads)
command got faster, due to the pid-cursor. But even with just 1000 threads
running a simple 'ps' is 30 times faster, and top refresh is 6 times
faster.</p>

<p>another advantage of this approach is that old procps is fully compatible
with the new kernel, and new procps is fully compatible with old kernels.
Plus everything is still encoded in the ASCII namespace, no binary
interfaces are used.</p>

<p>the patch works just fine on my boxes. (the patch is also included in the
threading backport, in the rawhide 2.4 kernel, and has been in use for a
couple of weeks already.)</p>

</quote>

<p>Linus Torvalds replied:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>Well, part of the problem (I think) is that you added all the threads to
the same main directory.</p>

<p>Putting a "." in front of the name doesn't fix the /proc level directory
scalability issues, it only means that you can avoid some of the user-
level scalability ones.</p>

<p>So to offset that bad design, you then add other cruft, like the lookup
cursor and the "." marker. Which is not a bad idea in itself, but I claim
that if you'd made the directory structure saner you wouldn't have needed
it in the first place.</p>

<p>It would just be _so_ much nicer if the threads would show up as
subdirectories ie /proc/&lt;tgid&gt;/&lt;tid&gt;/xxx. More scalable, more
readable, and just generally more sane.</p>

</quote>

<p>Other folks had similar suggestions, but Ingo replied that Alexander Viro
had said that the /proc/&lt;tgid&gt;/&lt;tid&gt;/xxx solution could not be
done sanely, and was fraught with security problems. Linus said it was no
different than the current situation, except the information would show
up in a different place. And Oliver Xymoron remarked, <quote who="Oliver
Xymoron">Well perhaps that was just Al's way of saying the current stuff is
broken too.</quote></p>

<p>There was a bit more discussion, but folks were unable to agree on the
proper way to go about things.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Status Of 8x AGP Support"
  subject="8x AGP under linux?"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/1161.html"
  posts="3"
  startdate="20 Feb 2003 09:00:56 -0800"
  enddate="20 Feb 2003 09:48:58 -0800"
>
<topic>PCI</topic>

<p>Casey Lancour asked, <quote who="Casey Lancour">Does anyone know the status
to 8x agp support under linux?  I am using the Granite bay 7205 chipset and
I cant get my geforce4 card to use agpgart or nvidia's agp support, it seems
to be defaulting to pci mode (not even using 4x agp).</quote> Dave Jones
replied, <quote who="Dave Jones">For 2.4, there is a patch for that chipset
(that didnt get merged to mainline). 2.5 has it supported out-of-the-box,
but likely breaks with your binary nvidia driver.</quote> Matthew E added,
<quote who="Matthew E Tolentino">Casey, I can send you the 2.4 patch for the
E7205/E7505 chipsets that I posted a while back that also incorporates AGP 3.0
support if you are interested.  However as Dave mentioned, I did have quite
a bit of trouble with the Nvidia 8x binary only driver, so ymmv....</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Consolidating Multiple ioctl Handler Code"
  subject="ioctl32 consolidation"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/1282.html"
  posts="13"
  startdate="20 Feb 2003 14:31:19 -0800"
  enddate="24 Feb 2003 02:05:56 -0800"
>
<topic>Feature Freeze</topic>
<topic>Ioctls</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<mention>Stephen Rothwell</mention>
<mention>David S. Miller</mention>
<mention>Andi Kleen</mention>

<p>Pavel Machek posted a patch and said:</p>

<quote who="Pavel Machek">

<p>Currently, 32-bit emulation in kernel has *5* copies, and its &gt;1000
lines each. Plus, locking of all but x86-64 architectures is broken (I'm
told by andi ;-).</p>

<p>So, here's patch that starts sharing sys32_ioctl() [as a first step],
which should rmove locking problems.</p>

<p>I've done the work for x86-64 and sparc64; if it looks good I'll attempt
to do other architectures. [Unless maintainers prefer to do it themselves:
I don't have easy access to 64-bit machines besides hammer.]</p>

</quote>

<p>Jeff Garzik replied:</p>

<quote who="Jeff Garzik">

<p>Yes :/  Consolidating all these copies into a single layer has been a
"project to be" for quite some time.</p>

<p>I do not know if it is too late in 2.5.x to begin this work, however.
We _are_ in a feature freeze...  I suppose it is up to the consensus of
arch maintainers, because it [obviously] does not affect ia32.</p>

</quote>

<p>Pavel replied that Andi Kleen had asked him to do the work; and Pavel asked
David S. Miller and other architecture maintainers what they thought about
it. David said he was totally fine with it. Arnd Bergmann also replied:</p>

<quote who="Arnd Bergmann">

<p>For s390, I'd love to see progress in the consolidation. Feel free to submit
changes for arch/s390x/kernel/ioctl32.c directly, like Stephen Rothwell does
for the syscall32 consolidation. Of course, Martin has the last word here,
but I'm rather sure he agress with me in this.</p>

<p>If you want access to an s390x
system, you can probably get access to one at <a
href="http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/os/linux/lcds/">http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/os/linux/lcds/</a>
or install the hercules emulator. I try to keep working kernel tree at <a
href="http://linux-390.bkbits.net/">http://linux-390.bkbits.net/</a>, but
the 32 bit emulation has been broken for most of 2.5.</p>

<p>Note that for any ioctls that pass pointers, you will need special
massaging for the high order bit of the user space pointer, because s390
only has 31 bit pointers, not 32 bit.</p>

</quote>

<p>Martin Schwidefsky added, <quote who="Martin Schwidefsky">Everything that
moves out of arch/s390x/kernel/ioctl32.c has my blessing.  I am currently
working on the 31 bit emulation. It almost works again and I will include
the changes in the next patch set.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Status Of SpeedTouch USB Modem Driver"
  subject="Alcatel SpeedTouch USB Modem"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/1348.html"
  posts="3"
  startdate="20 Feb 2003 18:01:14 -0800"
  enddate="21 Feb 2003 06:26:37 -0800"
>
<topic>Modems</topic>
<topic>SMP</topic>
<topic>USB</topic>

<p>Steve Parker noticed that the driver for the Alcatel SpeedTouch USB Modem
was now included in the 2.5 kernel. This surprised him, because there had always
been a lot of problems with the kernel driver as opposed to the user-space
version. He'd been using the user-space version for over a year with no
problems; and asked what the status was on the kernel driver.</p>

<p>Duncan Sands replied, saying he was the maintainer. Regarding the historical
troubles, Duncan said:</p>

<quote who="Duncan Sands">

<p>These problems are being resolved.  Most of them have already been resolved.
The cvs version for 2.4, which you can find at</p>

<p><a
href="http://www.linux-usb.org/SpeedTouch/">http://www.linux-usb.org/SpeedTouch/</a></p>

<p>is quite stable.  In theory it can still crash (due to various micro
races), but in practice it does not.  In any case, these micro races will
be fixed soon.  The 2.5 version, which is essentially identical to 2.4 cvs,
doesn't work very well in the current 2.5 kernel.  I don't know why.  I am
working on it.</p>

<p>I have nothing against the user space version, which I used for many moons.
The kernel version is certainly much lighter weight - less CPU, less memory.
Whether this matters for you depends on your machine/needs.  My machine is
slow, and I need all the CPU time I can get! </p>

</quote>

<p>He added:</p>

<quote who="Duncan Sands">

<p>The main disadvantages of the kernel mode driver were:</p>

<p>

<ol>

<li>unstable, and very unstable on SMP/preempt boxes</li>

<li>required running the closed source speedmgmt program</li>

<li>required compiling your own kernel</li>

</ol>

</p>

<p>The driver is in 2.5, and is heading for inclusion in 2.4, so I expect that
in the future most distributions will ship with the speedtch module compiled.
Thus (3) is going away.</p>

<p>The cvs version of the user space driver contains a patch for modem_run
which enables it to be used with the kernel driver in place of speedmgmt
(use the -k flag).  Thus (2) has already gone away.</p>

<p>As I mentioned, (1) is (almost) dealt with.</p>

</quote>

<p>Steve replied, <quote who="Steve Parker">Thanks for that,
Duncan. Lightweight and stable certainly sounds good; I look forward to the
project being ready.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Some Users Unhappy With Kernel Code Written Under NDA"
  subject="Linux kernel rant"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/1155.html"
  posts="23"
  startdate="20 Feb 2003 20:51:28 -0800"
  enddate="21 Feb 2003 07:34:48 -0800"
>
<topic>BSD: FreeBSD</topic>
<topic>BSD: OpenBSD</topic>
<topic>Disks: IDE</topic>
<topic>Disks: SCSI</topic>

<mention>Tomas Szepe</mention>

<p>James Buchanan complained:</p>

<quote who="James Buchanan">

<p>I am just wondering if anyone thinks the same way.  I am thinking about
going to BSD for good because of these things.</p>

<p>Linux is starting to include code written under non-disclosure agreements
and other nasties, and for me this kills the magic of Linux.  Doesn't stop
anyone from reading the code, but it's the principle that counts.</p>

<p>I don't know.  I feel Linux has lost the plot.  It's supposed to be
getting bigger and better (well, at least bigger -- to borrow words from
Andy Tanenbaum.  He was referring to the onslaught of "improvements" to
Minix being submitted, but now this applies to Linux as well.)</p>

<p>True, there are lots of nice improvements and binary only drivers cannot
use ksysms, so I've read somewhere.  (True?  Nice.)  But NDAs?  Come on,
where do you get off on that?</p>

</quote>

<p>Jeff Garzik pointed out that this situation had been going on for ages,
and that FreeBSD also had drivers written under NDA. He said, <quote who="Jeff
Garzik">It's the way of the hardware world.  If you don't get an NDA, you
don't get open source support.</quote> Tomas Szepe also said BSD developers
had to sign NDAs, but James replied, <quote who="James Buchanan">Theo De
Raadt refuses to sign them.</quote> Jeff replied:</p>

<quote who="Jeff Garzik">

<p>OpenBSD contains drivers _obviously_ written under NDA, just like every
other free BSD.  Theo probably imported these drivers from FreeBSD,
I would guess.</p>

<p>I pay attention to net drivers in all the BSD OS's, so if you know net
drivers and their vendors, these things are obvious ;-)</p>

</quote>

<p>Rik van Riel pointed out that Theo De Raadt didn't have the same hardware
support, precisely because he refused to sign the NDAs. He quipped, <quote
who="Rik van Riel">Of course, you're free to run openbsd on any machine
that supports it.  I'm sure you'll be able to put one together from various
supported pieces of hardware.</quote></p>

<p>Elsewhere, James said he didn't use any drivers written under NDA, and
Rik and Tomas pointed out that it was virtually impossible to find IDE or
modern SCSI drivers to satisfy that condition. Close by, Jeff asked James
to post the list of kernel drivers he used, so he and others could point
out the portions written under NDA.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Kernel 2.5.62-mm3 Released"
  subject="2.5.62-mm3"
  posts="18"
  startdate="23 Feb 2003 23:00:23 -0800"
  enddate="26 Feb 2003 10:24:32 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: sysfs</topic>
<topic>Virtual Memory</topic>

<mention>Dave McCracken</mention>

<p>Andrew Morton announced:</p>

<quote who="Andrew Morton">

<p><a
href="http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/akpm/patches/2.5/2.5.62/2.5.62-mm3/">http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/akpm/patches/2.5/2.5.62/2.5.62-mm3/</a></p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>

<p>Included Dave McCracken's "Object-based RMAP" patch.</p>

<p>  What this dopey name actually means is that when page reclaim tries to
  unmap a file-backed page it walks the VMAs attached to the address_space
  and the pagetables attached thereto.  So there is no need for pte_chains
  for these pages.</p>

<p>  The patch is simple, but potentially has search complexity problems with
  weird workloads which have high sharing levels.  Allegedly.  Work is
  ongoing.</p>

</li>

<li>

<p>Several more anticipatory scheduler tweaks.  This has been an exercise
  in hunting down situations in which the scheduler does the wrong thing, and
  plugging those up.</p>

<p>  The only known problem at this time is a ~20% falloff in threaded
  OLTP-style database activity.  This is really complex, involving
  interactions between reads, O_SYNC writes and i_sem contention.</p>

<p>  The problem will recede to less than 10% when we retune the anticipation
  timer (it is currently set too high just so we can discover these things).</p>

<p>  But we do not see a sane way of fixing this for real.  At present it will
  need to be manually tuned away with</p>

<p>        echo 0 &gt; /sys/block/hdXX/antic_expire</p>

<p>  Later, we will probably have to perform this disabling automatically.</p>

</li>

<li>There are some performance fixes which will help OLTP-style workloads
  which are using regular old files through the pagecache.  It seems to be
  running maybe 60-70% faster than 2.4.x now, but it varies.</li>

<li>A few performance patches to reduce the amount of work we do in
  update_atime() and __mark_inode_dirty() should pull back some of the
  regressions which have been observed in there.</li>

</ul>

</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="NTFS 2.1.1a For 2.4 Released"
  subject="[ANN] NTFS 2.1.1a for kernel 2.4.20 released"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.3/0072.html"
  posts="3"
  startdate="24 Feb 2003 03:12:39 -0800"
  enddate="24 Feb 2003 03:41:41 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: NTFS</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<p>Anton Altaparmakov announced:</p>

<quote who="Anton Altaparmakov">

<p>NTFS 2.1.1a is now released for kernel 2.4.20. This fixes both the
reported hangs and improves the handling of compressed files so that the
warning message people keep reporting is now gone. (Note the hangs were
specific to the 2.4.x kernel ntfs versions. 2.5.x kernel ntfs versions are
not affected.)</p>

<p>Download the patch from:</p>

<p><a
href="http://linux-ntfs.sf.net/downloads.html">http://linux-ntfs.sf.net/downloads.html</a></p>

<p>Or get from our BK repository (which is at the current BK linux-2.4 version,
i.e. 2.4.21-pre4-bk):</p>

<p>bk://linux-ntfs.bkbits.net/ntfs-2.4</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="Possible Violation Of GPL"
  subject="[ANNOUNCE] interesting new vendor kernels on kernelnewbies.org"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.3/0116.html"
  posts="1"
  startdate="24 Feb 2003 06:41:56 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: NFS</topic>
<topic>Virtual Memory</topic>

<p>Christoph Hellwig announced:</p>

<quote who="Christoph Hellwig">

<p>I'd like to annouce that there are two new interesting
vendor kernels available on the kernelnewbies vendor kernels page (<a
href="http://www.kernelnewbies.org/kernels/">http://www.kernelnewbies.org/kernels/</a>).
Both unfortunately don't use the traditional organization of multiple pathes
agains ta base kernel release but were tarballs that I had to diff against
known kernel release.</p>

<p>In detail they are:</p>

<p>

<ol>

<li>

<p>The NEC kernel for their IA64 machines.</p>

<p>Interestng here are their VM changes and a NFS extension for shared storage
called GFS (it's different from Sistina's filesystem of the same name)</p>

</li>

<li>

<p>The kernel from TimeSys 3.1 demo release</p>

<p>This one is really interesting, it features a completly new scheduler
architectured around hooks to their propritary real time kernel and heavyweight
mutexes (e.g. with priority inheritance) that replace Linux spinlocks.
These architecture probably violates the GPL, but I'd like to hear some more
opinions on people who actually read the code before bothering TimeSys about
this issue.</p>

</li>

</ol>

</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="Free Driver Petition"
  subject="Free Drivers Petition"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.3/0117.html"
  posts="1"
  startdate="24 Feb 2003 06:42:26 -0800"
>

<p>Harry Lepper suggested, <quote who="Harry
Lepper">Please sign up the Free Drivers Petition at &lt;<a
href="http://www.petitiononline.com/zxcv7nm">www.petitiononline.com/zxcv7nm</a>&gt;.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Mailing List Statistics"
  subject="statistics for this mailinglist"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.3/0158.html"
  posts="11"
  startdate="24 Feb 2003 10:00:01 -0800"
  enddate="25 Feb 2003 14:34:48 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: procfs</topic>
<topic>SMP</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<mention>Larry McVoy</mention>
<mention>Martin J. Bligh</mention>
<mention>David S. Miller</mention>
<mention>Ingo Molnar</mention>
<mention>Maciej Soltysiak</mention>
<mention>Chris Wedgwood</mention>
<mention>Linus Torvalds</mention>
<mention>Alan Cox</mention>
<mention>Andrea Arcangeli</mention>
<mention>Osamu Tomita</mention>
<mention>Jeff Garzik</mention>
<mention>William Lee Irwin III</mention>
<mention>Andrew Morton</mention>
<mention>Zwane Mwaikambo</mention>

<p>Folkert van Heusden posted some statistics for the linux-kernel mailing list:</p>

<quote who="Folkert van Heusden">

<pre>Overall statistics
------------------
First message was written at: 2003/02/18 13:09:03
Last message was written at: 2003/02/19 23:54:45
Total number of messages: 1595
Total size: 8704KB
Total number of writers: 369
Number of people who wrote >1 message: 196
Total number of lines: 141544
Average lines per message: 88
Total header length (lines): 76324
Average header length (lines): 47
The header is on average 53.92% of the message (lines).
The header is 46.05% bytes in size of the total.
Average number of bits information per byte: 0.7501
Total number of unique user-agents: 142
Total number of unique organisations: 44
Total number of unique top-level domains: 51

Importance
----------
Low   : 0.00%
Normal: 1.38%
High  : 0.00%
(the rest is unspecified)

Top writers
   | # msgs|av size| total|time| e-mail address
---+-------+-------+------+----+--------------------------------
  1]     76|   4785| 355KB|0854| Alan Cox &lt;alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk&gt;
  2]     59|   5692| 328KB|1428| "Martin J. Bligh" &lt;mbligh@aracnet.com&gt;
  3]     57|   3410| 189KB|1124| "David S. Miller" &lt;davem@redhat.com&gt;
  4]     53|  16844| 871KB|1937| Osamu Tomita &lt;tomita@cinet.co.jp&gt;
  5]     42|   5531| 226KB|1133| William Lee Irwin III &lt;wli@holomorphy.com&gt;
  6]     42|   5055| 207KB|1415| Andrew Morton &lt;akpm@digeo.com&gt;
  7]     35|   4743| 162KB|1334| Linus Torvalds &lt;torvalds@transmeta.com&gt;
  8]     32|   3391| 105KB|1441| Jeff Garzik &lt;jgarzik@pobox.com&gt;
  9]     28|   5374| 146KB|1437| Andrea Arcangeli &lt;andrea@suse.de&gt;
 10]     26|   3938|  99KB|1540| Ingo Molnar &lt;mingo@elte.hu&gt;

Top subjects
   | # msgs|av size| total|time| subject
---+-------+-------+------+----+--------------------------------
  1]    150|   4476| 655KB|1255| Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call
  2]     34|   4474| 148KB|1339| doublefault debugging (was Re: Linux v2.5.62 --- spontaneous
  3]     28|   4249| 116KB|1154| [patch] procfs/procps threading performance speedup, 2.5.62
  4]     23|   3795|  85KB|0840| Longstanding networking / SMP issue? (duplextest)
  5]     23|   3507|  78KB|1609| Linux kernel rant
  6]     21|  10297| 211KB|1216| AGP backport from 2.5 to 2.4.21-pre4
  7]     21|   3944|  80KB|1026| Linux v2.5.62
  8]     19|   4189|  77KB|0925| [PATCH] add new DMA_ADDR_T_SIZE define
  9]     17|   4824|  80KB|1129| [RFC] Is an alternative module interface needed/possible?
 10]     16|   4265|  66KB|1355| RFC3168, section 6.1.1.1 - ECN and retransmit of SYN

Top receivers
   | # msgs|av size| total|time| e-mail address
---+-------+-------+------+----+--------------------------------
  1]    424|   6563|2717KB|1428| linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
  2]    149|   7420|1079KB|1409| Linus Torvalds &lt;torvalds@transmeta.com&gt;
  3]     58|   6021| 341KB|1316| Andrew Morton &lt;akpm@digeo.com&gt;
  4]     48|   8122| 380KB|1334| "David S. Miller" &lt;davem@redhat.com&gt;
  5]     47|   5845| 268KB|1509| "Martin J. Bligh" &lt;mbligh@aracnet.com&gt;
  6]     36|   5781| 203KB|1359| Jeff Garzik &lt;jgarzik@pobox.com&gt;
  7]     29|   8334| 236KB|1052| Alan Cox &lt;alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk&gt;
  8]     26|   4200| 106KB|1042| wli@holomorphy.com
  9]     23|   4752| 106KB|1134| Larry McVoy &lt;lm@bitmover.com&gt;
 10]     22|   5346| 114KB|0959| Ingo Molnar &lt;mingo@elte.hu&gt;

Top CC'ers
   | # msgs|av size| total|time| e-mail address
---+-------+-------+------+----+--------------------------------
  1]    752|   5396|3962KB|1242| &lt;linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org&gt;
  2]    115|   4061| 456KB|1334| torvalds@transmeta.com
  3]     56|   5549| 303KB|1249| Andrew Morton &lt;akpm@digeo.com&gt;
  4]     54|  14239| 750KB|1747| Alan Cox &lt;alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk&gt;
  5]     39|   6608| 251KB|1102| "David S. Miller" &lt;davem@redhat.com&gt;
  6]     35|   9217| 315KB|1301| kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru
  7]     32|   5170| 161KB|1419| Chris Wedgwood &lt;cw@f00f.org&gt;
  8]     32|   4268| 133KB|0844| "Martin J. Bligh" &lt;mbligh@aracnet.com&gt;
  9]     26|   5165| 131KB|1459| Zwane Mwaikambo &lt;zwane@holomorphy.com&gt;
 10]     24|   8095| 189KB|1313| Jeff Garzik &lt;jgarzik@pobox.com&gt;

Top of top-level-domain
----------------------------------------------------------
 1]  com 668
 2]  org 200
 3]   de 118
 4]   uk 117
 5]  net 90
 6]   jp 55
 7]   au 49
 8]   cz 32
 9]   hu 30
10]  edu 27

Top organisations
----------------------------------------------------------
 1]   81
 2]   42 The Domain of Holomorphy
 3]   11 Working Overloaded Linux Kernel
 4]    8 none
 5]    8 Nuix
 6]    7 USAGI Project
 7]    7 ith Kommunikationstechnik GmbH
 8]    3 Open Source Devlopment Lab
 9]    3 My House
10]    3 daimi.au.dk

Top user-agents
----------------------------------------------------------
 1]  207 Mutt/1.4i
 2]   78 Mutt/1.3.28i
 3]   70 Mutt/1.2.5.1i
 4]   70 Mutt/1.5.3i
 5]   60 ELM [version 2.5 PL6]
 6]   55 Mulberry/2.2.1 (Linux/x86)
 7]   51 Mutt/1.3.25i
 8]   42 Sylpheed version 0.8.9 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu)
 9]   42 Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI)
10]   41 Ximian Evolution 1.2.1 (1.2.1-4)

Messages per day
----------------------------------------------------------
   Sunday   257 ************************************
   Monday   133 *******************
  Tuesday   146 ********************
Wednesday   215 ******************************
 Thursday   300 *****************************************
   Friday   239 *********************************
 Saturday   136 *******************

Messages per Month
----------------------------------------------------------
Jan     0
Feb  1427 *************************************************
Mar     0
Apr     0
May     0
Jun     0
Jul     0
Aug     0
Sep     0
Oct     0
Nov     0
Dec     0

Messages per day-of-the-month
----------------------------------------------------------
 1     0
 2     0
 3     0
 4     0
 5     0
 6     0
 7     0
 8     0
 9     0
10     0
11     0
12     0
13     0
14     0
15     0
16     2 *
17     0
18   146 ************************
19   215 ***********************************
20   301 *************************************************
21   239 ***************************************
22   136 **********************
23   255 *****************************************
24   133 **********************
25     0
26     0
27     0
28     0
29     0
30     0
31     0

Messages per hour
----------------------------------------------------------
 1    45 *******************
 2    17 ********
 3    13 ******
 4    10 *****
 5     4 **
 6    12 ******
 7    21 *********
 8    41 ******************
 9    63 ***************************
10    83 ***********************************
11    72 *******************************
12    83 ***********************************
13    86 *************************************
14    93 ***************************************
15   100 ******************************************
16   101 *******************************************
17    84 ************************************
18   117 **************************************************
19    52 **********************
20    72 *******************************
21    84 ************************************
22    61 **************************
23    63 ***************************</pre>

<p>Created with mboxstats; written by folkert@vanheusden.com</p>

</quote>

<p>Maciej Soltysiak was surprised that there didn't seem to be any Pine
users represented in the statistics. Several folks pointed out that Pine
didn't use an "X-Mailer" header or "User-Agent" header to identify itself,
but they said it could probably be recognized by the "Message-ID" header.</p>

<p>J.W. Schultz also pointed out:</p>

<quote who="J.W. Schultz">

<p>And it wouldn't hurt to aggregate versions.  This is really
just a top-6 list.</p>

<pre> 1]  476 Mutt (most common versions versions)
 2]   60 ELM [version 2.5 PL6]
 3]   55 Mulberry/2.2.1 (Linux/x86)
 4]   42 Sylpheed version 0.8.9 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu)
 5]   42 Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI)
 6]   41 Ximian Evolution 1.2.1 (1.2.1-4)</pre>

<p>Wonder where "unknown" would land if counted.</p>

</quote>

<p>Folkert asked:</p>

<quote who="Folkert van Heusden">

<p>Problem is: what part is version-information and what is name?  For Mutt
1.0, ELM 3.6 it's clear; it's the number part.</p>

<p>But what about:<br />
FlokEdit peanutbutterrelease<br />
FlokEdit RMDrelease</p>

</quote>

<p>J.W. replied, <quote who="J.W. Schultz">I would expect it to take a few
regexes but so far $mta =~ s/\W.*$// would do the trick to produce Mutt,
ELM, Mulberry, Sylpheed, Mew, Ximian and even FlokEdit.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Linux 2.5.63 Released"
  subject="Linux 2.5.63"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.3/0199.html"
  posts="10"
  startdate="24 Feb 2003 11:32:07 -0800"
  enddate="25 Feb 2003 07:44:13 -0800"
>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<p>Linus Torvalds announced <a
href="http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.5/ChangeLog-2.5.63">2.5.63</a>:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>Hmm.. Nothing really fundamental here - various updates all over
(architecture updates, networking, usb, acpi, bluetooth, the usual
suspects).</p>

<p>The task structure reference counting seems to have broken alpha, Richard
is still chasing that one down.</p>

</quote>

<p>John Cherry posted:</p>

<quote who="John Cherry">

<p>Compile statistics: 2.5.63</p>

<p>Note that gcc 3.2 was used for all of these statistics.</p>

<pre>                               2.5.62               2.5.63
                       --------------------    -----------------
bzImage (defconfig)         18 warnings          15 warnings
                             0 errors             0 errors

bzImage (allmodconfig)      33 warnings          29 warnings
                             9 errors             9 errors

modules (allmodconfig)    2514 warnings        2426 warnings
                           105 errors           128 errors</pre>

<p>Compile statistics have been for kernel releases from 2.5.46 to 2.5.63
at: www.osdl.org/archive/cherry/stability</p>

<p>I am also compiling nightly views of Linus' linux-2.5 bitkeeper tree.
Results can be found at:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.osdl.org/archive/cherry/stability/linus-tree/running.txt">www.osdl.org/archive/cherry/stability/linus-tree/running.txt</a></p>

</quote>

</section>

</kc>

