<?xml version="1.0" ?>

<kc>

<title>Kernel Traffic</title>

<author contact="mailto:zbrown@tumblerings.org">Zack Brown</author>

<issue num="225" date="31 Jul 2003 00:00:00 -0800" />

<headquote>

<p>If you like Kernel Traffic and want to send me a little money, click
here:</p>
   
<p>
<form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post">
  <input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_xclick"/>
  <input type="hidden" name="business" value="zbrown@tumblerings.org"/>
  <input type="hidden" name="no_shipping" value="1"/>
  <input type="hidden" name="return" value="http://www.kerneltraffic.org"/>
  <input type="hidden" name="cancel_return" value="http://www.kerneltraffic.org"/>
  <input type="image" src="http://images.paypal.com/images/x-click-but04.gif" height="31" width="62" alt="https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=zbrown%40tumblerings.org&amp;no_note=1&amp;tax=0&amp;currency_code=USD" border="0" name="submit"/>
</form>
</p>

</headquote>

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<section
  title="Linux 2.6.0-test1-mm1 Released"
  subject="2.6.0-test1-mm1"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0307.2/0005.html"
  posts="33"
  startdate="15 Jul 2003 21:56:08 -0800"
  enddate="20 Jul 2003 10:50:40 -0800"
>
<topic>Disks: IDE</topic>
<topic>Disks: SCSI</topic>
<topic>Hyperthreading</topic>

<mention>Mark Haverkamp</mention>

<p>Andrew Morton announced:</p>

<quote who="Andrew Morton">

<p><a
href="ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/akpm/patches/2.6/2.6.0-test1/2.6.0-test1-mm1/">ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/akpm/patches/2.6/2.6.0-test1/2.6.0-test1-mm1/</a></p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>Lots of bugfixes.</li>

<li>A big one-liner from Mark Haverkamp fixes some hanges which were being
seen with the aacraid driver and may fix the problem which people have seen on
other SCSI drivers: everything getting stuck in io_schedule() under load.</li>

<li>Another interactivity patch from Con.  Feedback is needed on this please -
we cannot make much progress on this fairly subjective work without lots of
people telling us how it is working for them.</li>

</ul>

</p>

</quote>

<p>Thomas Downing replied:</p>

<quote who="Thomas Downing">

<p>I have been testing interactivity now for for a while.  The only
symptom (subjective) that I can see is occasional but repeatable
(if you get what I mean) video _only_ skips in xine.  The audio
does not skip.  The video skips are very short, only a 4-5 frames
at most.</p>

<p>They occur _only_ when performing such operations as rendering a
large bitmap to the screen.  They do _not_ occur when dragging
windows (with contents visible during drag,) nor does CPU load
seem to have an effect.</p>

<p>Playing games with nice/renice on xine or on other processes,
especially GIMP etc., does not seem to have an effect.</p>

<p>>From this it seems to my limited view that the remaining skips
might be XFree86 issues?</p>

<p>Some pertinent details:</p>

<p>2 x P4 Xeon 2.4 Mhz, 512Mb ram.<br />
Radeon VQ + Matrox Mystique.<br />
Premptive kernel<br />
Hyperthreading enabled.<br />
IDE DVD, no SCSI in system.</p>

<p>No problems at all, only minor niggles since 2.5.67.  (I have
been following -mm patches.)</p>

<p>Thanks for the wonderful work!</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="Status Of The KDB Kernel Debugger"
  subject="KDB in the mainstream 2.4.x kernels?"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0307.2/1061.html"
  posts="9"
  startdate="18 Jul 2003 12:06:33 -0800"
  enddate="21 Jul 2003 07:06:43 -0800"
>

<mention>Linas Vepstas</mention>

<p>Linas Vepstas asked when or if the KDB kernel debugger would make it into the
main tree. Andi Kleen replied:</p>

<quote who="Andi Kleen">

One argument i have against it: KDB is incredibly ugly code.
Before it could be even considered for merging it would need quite a lot
of cleanup.

I actually started on porting the KDB backtracer recently to get
reliable frame pointer based backtraces, but it turns out the code
for that is so complicated and ugly that the chances of ever merging 
it would be very slim.

</quote>

<p>[...]</p>

<quote who="Andi Kleen">

<p>KDB is usually not useful for debugging hangs on desktop boxes (and even
many servers) because you have usually X running. When the machine crashes
and goes in KDB you cannot see the text output and debug anything. I learned
to type "go&lt;return&gt;" blind when I had still an KDB aware kernel,
but it's not very useful overall.</p>

<p>On a development machine you can avoid that by connecting a serial cable,
but that's usually not easily possible for a desktop box. Doing a post-mortem
after reboot is more practical. That is what LKCD/mcore do.</p>

<p>Disadvantage is that the current crash dump mechanisms (lkcd, mcore crash,
netdump) are all still not very reliable and have horrible error handling. And
you can eat a lot of disk space for the dumps and they tend to overflow your
file systems.  But still it's the only realistic option for "desktop bugs"</p>

<p>BTW debugging on the X server works on linuxppc/mac with xmon because it
has a fbcon based console and X server. The debugger can just work on the
X background while the X server is stopped. Very nifty.  But I don't see
the x86 XFree86 switching to a similar fbcon model any time soon, so it's
unlikely to help.</p>

</quote>

<p>Linas looked at kdb/kdbmain.c and kdb/kdb_bt.c and didn't see anything
particularly ugly about the code. He asked Andi to give an example,
and Andi said, <quote who="Andi Kleen">Check the kdbsupport.c code too.
All the code together for the i386 backtracer is approaching 1000 LOC and
it's quite ugly.</quote></p>

<p>Keith Owens also replied to Andi's tale of porting woe, explaining that
the ugliness was <quote who="Keith Owens">Mainly because the kernel is
full of special cases and i386 provides no unwind data to help decode those
special cases, so all the special case code ends up in kdba_bt.c.  Compare the
complexity of i386 kdba_bt.c with ia64 kdba_bt.c, the latter is significantly
simpler because ia64 mandates unwind data.  Without unwind data, kdb has
to use lots of awkward heuristics to even guess at an accurate backtrace.
Don't blame kdb for the lack of i386 unwind data.</quote> Andi agreed it was an
ugly problem, which, he said, generally resulted in ugly solutions.</p>

<p>Close by, David S.  Miller suggested, <quote who="David S. Miller">We
could tell gcc to emit dwarf2 unwind tables on x86 for debugging kernel
builds.</quote> But Keith replied, <quote who="Keith Owens">C code is not
really an issue.  Most of the unwind complexity is handling the special case
asm code, interrupt handlers, out of line lock contention paths, anything
in entry.S.  Much of the IA64 asm code has explicit unwind directives in
the asm code, i386 asm would need equivalent kernel changes.</quote></p>

<p>Elsewhere, under the Subject: <a
href="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0307.2/1398.html">Re:
Announce: kdb v4.3 is available for kernels 2.4.20, 2.4.21</a>, Keith announced
<a href="ftp://oss.sgi.com/projects/kdb/download/v4.3/">KDB 4.3</a>.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Filesystem Support For Arbitrary Block Devices"
  subject="Re: [PATCH] General filesystem cache"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0307.2/1187.html"
  posts="7"
  startdate="18 Jul 2003 19:09:20 -0800"
  enddate="20 Jul 2003 01:38:03 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: CacheFS</topic>
<topic>FS: NFS</topic>
<topic>Ottawa Linux Symposium</topic>
<topic>Samba</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<mention>David Chow</mention>
<mention>Jeff Garzik</mention>

<p>David Howells said privately to Linus Torvalds:</p>

<quote who="David Howells">

<p>Here's a patch to add a quasi-filesystem ("CacheFS") that turns a block
device into a general cache for any other filesystem that cares to make use
of its facilities.</p>

<p>This is primarily intended for use with my AFS filesystem, but I've
designed it such that it needs to know nothing about the filesystem it's
backing, and so it may also be useful for NFS, SMB and ISO9660 for example.</p>

</quote>

<p>Linus replied publically:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>Ok. Sounds good. In fact, it's something I've wanted for a while, since
it's also potentially the solution to performance-critical things like
virtual filesystems based on revision control logic etc (traditionally done
with fake NFS servers).</p>

<p>I did a very very quick scan, and didn't see anything that raised my
hackles. But it's late in the 2.6.x game, and as a result I'm not going to
apply it until I get a lot of feedback from actual users too.</p>

</quote>

<p>David Chow was very excited to hear about this, and asked if the patch was
available for the 2.4 tree. David replied, <quote who="David Howells">Not
yet. There are plans to backport it at some point - possibly by me though
I may be able to twist Jeff Garzik's arm sufficiently that he'll do the
work.</quote> Close by, he did ask Jeff to do a 2.4 port, but Jeff didn't
reply on the list. Elsewhere, someone asked where the patch could actually
be found (Linus hadn't quoted that part in his email), and David said:</p>

<quote who="David Howells">

<p>The message containing the patches doesn't seem to have made it
into either the LKML or the linux-fsdevel mailing lists.</p>

<p>The basic code can be found in:</p>

<p><a
href="http://cvs.infradead.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/afs/">http://cvs.infradead.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/afs/</a></p>

<p>In directories:</p>

<p>        Documentations/filesystems/<br />
        include/linux/<br />
        fs/cachefs/</p>

<p>I'll see about putting the patch up for download when I get to OLS.</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="Status Of SquashFS In 2.6"
  subject="[PATCH] Port SquashFS to 2.6"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0307.2/1334.html"
  posts="14"
  startdate="19 Jul 2003 14:59:05 -0800"
  enddate="22 Jul 2003 02:47:23 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: SquashFS</topic>
<topic>FS: ext3</topic>
<topic>FS: initramfs</topic>
<topic>FS: ramfs</topic>

<mention>Phillip Lougher</mention>

<p>Junio C Hamano announced:</p>

<quote who="Junio C Hamano">

<p>The following is a straight port of Phillip Lougher's SquashFS (<a
href="http://squashfs.sf.net">http://squashfs.sf.net</a>).  The port is
based on squashfs 1.2 for 2.4.20.</p>

<p>The patch is on top of, and tested with, 2.6.0-test1-ac2.  It applies
cleanly on vanilla 2.6.0-test1 (since -ac2 is mostly bugfixes, there is not
much point testing with vanilla, though).</p>

<p>There are four things that are different from the 2.4 version (is there
"notes on porting filesystems from 2.4 to 2.6" somewhere, btw?).</p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>Hooks in init/do_mounts.c to mount things in initramfs seems
   to have removed (there is no mention of CRAMFS there
   anymore), so that part of the patch has been removed.</li>

<li>2.6 vfs calls dir_ops.readdir without BKL held, and expected
   to do that itself if needed.  The attached port mimics what
   cramfs/inode.c does differently between 2.4 and 2.6.</li>

<li>struct super_block in 2.6 vfs has removed the embedded union
   for filesystem private data.  Filesystems are expected to use
   void *s_fs_info member in it to hang private data in
   kmalloc'ed memory if needed.  The attached port again mimics
   what cramfs/inode.c does differently between 2.4 and 2.6.</li>

<li>struct inode in 2.6 vfs has removed the embedded union for
   filesystem private data.  Filesystems with private data now
   define its own xxx_inode_info struct that embeds struct
   inode.  IOW, containment has become inside out.  The attached
   port defines alloc_inode (and corresponding destroy_inode)
   members in the super_operations struct, mimicking what
   ext3/super.c does differently between 2.4 and 2.6.</li>

</ul>

</p>

</quote>

<p>A number of folks posted suggestions, and elsewhere, under the Subject: <a
href="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0307.2/1417.html">[PATCH]
Port SquashFS to 2.6 (take 2)</a>, Junio posted a new version, saying:</p>

<quote who="Junio C Hamano">

<p>This is the second round of the port.  I have fixed the following,
based on suggestions from the list, since the initial patch:</p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>A couple of character buffers allocated on the stack in the original
2.4 code are allocated with kmalloc(GFP_KERNEL) now.</li>

<li>A bit more readable Kconfig help message has been added.</li>

</ul>

</p>

</quote>

</section>

</kc>

