<?xml version="1.0" ?>

<kc>

<title>Kernel Traffic</title>

<author contact="mailto:zbrown@tumblerings.org">Zack Brown</author>

<issue num="239" date="01 Nov 2003 00:00:00 -0800" />

<stats posts="1173" size="6062" contrib="434" multiples="207" lastweek="158">

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<person posts="12" size="42" who="&quot;Richard B. Johnson&quot;" />
<person posts="10" size="45" who="jw schultz" />
<person posts="10" size="39" who="Linus Torvalds" />
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<person posts="9" size="32" who="Rob Landley" />
<person posts="9" size="31" who="William Lee Irwin III" />
<person posts="9" size="26" who="Zwane Mwaikambo" />
<person posts="8" size="44" who="OGAWA Hirofumi" />
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<section
  title="Status Of Software Suspend"
  subject="Wow.  Suspend to disk works for me in test8. :)"
  posts="11"
  startdate="19 Oct 2003 23:25:11 -0800"
  enddate="25 Oct 2003 08:08:56 -0800"
>
<topic>Software Suspend</topic>

<mention>Marek Habersack</mention>

<p>Rob Landley was surprised and pleased to see suspend-to-disk actually
working under 2.6.0-test8. Voicu Liviu asked how long it took to do the
suspend, and Rob estimated about 15 seconds. Rob added, <quote who="Rob
Landley">A couple of down sides I've noticed: I have to run "hwclock
--hctosys" after a resume because the time you saved at is the time the
system thinks it is when you resume (ouch).  And because of that, things
that should time out and renew themselves (like dhcp leases) have to be
thumped manually.</quote> Marek Habersack reported no success resuming after
a suspend; and Rob speculated that he (Rob) might have a particularly amenable
set of hardware.</p>

<p>Elsewhere, Rob happened to mention, <quote who="Rob Landley">I'm still
subscribed to the swsusp list, but stopped reading it some time ago because it
was all about 2.4 and I haven't run 2.4 in months...</quote> Nigel Cunningham
remarked in reply, <quote who="Nigel Cunningham">That's about to change. I've
just gotten a port of the current 2.4 code going tonight. A bit more testing
and tweaking, and I'll post a version for others to try.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="New srfs Distributed Filesystem"
  subject="srfs - a new file system."
  posts="18"
  startdate="20 Oct 2003 01:12:07 -0800"
  enddate="24 Oct 2003 01:28:54 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: Coda</topic>
<topic>POSIX</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<mention>Daniel Egger</mention>
<mention>Eric Sandall</mention>

<p>Nir Tzachar announced:</p>

<quote who="Nir Tzachar">

<p>We're proud to announce the availability of
a _proof of concept_ file system, called srfs. ( <a
href="http://www.cs.bgu.ac.il/~srfs/">http://www.cs.bgu.ac.il/~srfs/</a> ).
a quick overview: [from the home page]</p>

<p>srfs is a global file system designed to be distributed geographicly
over multiple locations and provide a consistent, high available and durable
infrastructure for information.</p>

<p>Started as a research project into file systems and self-stabilization
in Ben Gurion University of the Negev Department of Computer Science, the
project aims to integrate self-stabilization methods and algorithms into the
file (and operation) systems to provide a system with a desired behavior in
the presence of transient faults.</p>

<p>Based on layered self-stabilizing algorithms, provide a tree replication
structure based on auto-discovery of servers using local and global IP
multicasting. The tree structure is providing the command and timing
infrastructure required for a distributed file system.</p>

<p>The project is basically divided into two components:</p>

<p>

<ol>

<li>a kernel module, which provides the low level functionality, and disk
management.</li>

<li>a user space caching daemon, which provide the stabilization and
replication properties of the file system.</li>

</ol>

</p>

<p>these two components communicate via a character device.</p>

<p>more info on the system architecture
can be find on the web page, and here: <a
href="http://www.cs.bgu.ac.il/~tzachar/srfs.pdf">http://www.cs.bgu.ac.il/~tzachar/srfs.pdf</a></p>

<p>We hope some will find this interesting enough to take for a test drive,
and wont mind the latencies ( currently, the caching daemon is a bit slow.
hopefully, we will improve it in the future. ) anyway, please keep in mind
this is a very early version that only works, and keeps the stabilization
properties. no posix compliance whatsoever...</p>

</quote>

<p>Eric Sandall said this sounded very similar to existing Coda work,
but Nir replied, <quote who="Nir Tzachar">not at all.  coda is not self
stabilizing at all.  srfs is also a totally distributed file system -&gt;
see the doc.</quote> Pavel Machek remarked, <quote who="Pavel Machek">perhaps
differences can be localized to userspace daemon, having same kernel part for
coda and srfs?  That would be *good*.</quote> And Nir replied, <quote who="Nir
Tzachar">in essence, ur correct. we would have taken that approach, if we
were not aiming at building a file system on top of an object storage. this
approach simplifies things a bit, and the kernel part is reduced.</quote>
Elsewhere, Daniel Egger remarked that Coda was an ugly mess (or was when
he'd last looked at it), and any new alternatives were certainly welcome,
as far as he was concerned. Eric agreed with this.</p>

<p>Elsewhere, Erik Andersen posed a problem:</p>

<quote who="Erik Andersen">

<p>Suppose I install srfs on both my laptop and my server.  I then move the
CVS repository for my pet project onto the new srfs filesystem and I take off
for the weekend with my laptop.   Over the weekend I commit several changes to
file X.  Over the weekend my friend also commits several changes to file X.</p>

<p>When I get home and plug in my laptop, presumably the caching daemon will
try to stabalize the system by deciding which version of file X was changed
last and replicating that latest version.</p>

<p>Who's work will the caching daemon overwrite?  My work, or my friends
work?</p>

<p>Of course, this need not involve anything so extreme as days of disconnected
independent operation.  A rebooting router between two previously syncd srfs
peers seems sufficient to trigger this kind of data loss, unless you make
the logging daemon fail all writes when disconnected.</p>

</quote>

<p>Nir replied:</p>

<quote who="Nir Tzachar">

<p>i want to apologize if my explanation was not clear enough: self
stabilization (original idea by Dijkstra) - A self stabilizing system
is a system that can automatically recover following the occurrence of (
transient ) faults. The idea is to design a system which can be started in
an arbitrary state and still converge to a desired behavior.</p>

<p>Our file system behaves like this: lets say you have several servers,
with different file system trees on them. If (and when ...) you connect these
file systems with an srfs framework, all servers will display the same file
system tree, which is somewhat of a union between them all.  if you wish
to talk in coda terms, you can say all servers operated disconnectedly,
and then were connected at the same time. the conflict resolving mechanism
we use, is by majority.</p>

<p>We differ from coda in the sense we don't have a main server, which pushes
Volumes to sub-servers (im not sure what the coda terminology is... ), and
data is served in a load-balanced way. In Srfs, all the data resides on all
servers (hosts) and is replicated between them.  replication takes place at
two levels: tree view (plus meta data) and the actual data.</p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>tree view - the tree view on all hosts is the same. an `ls` on a dir on
any host will produce the same output.</li>

<li>data - data will be replicated to all hosts upon a successful write,
and upon each access to a dirty file on each host.</li>

</ul>

</p>

<p>all replication is lazy, and happens only on access to dirs / files
(and on successful writes - when the file is being closed.)</p>

<p>Thus, the following behavior can be achieved: lets say you have 2N+1
hosts, all with coherent file system trees.  now, take N of them offline,
change the tree, put those N back online, and their tree will be the same
as the other N+1 other hosts.</p>

<p>The main goal of the file system is self stabilization, over long periods
of time and long distances. you can use it as a SAN, or as a data farm,
using system like LinuxVirtualServer to balance the load between nodes.</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="Developer Discussion Of POSIX Capabilities"
  subject="posix capabilities inheritance"
  posts="19"
  startdate="21 Oct 2003 03:26:45 -0800"
  enddate="25 Oct 2003 11:51:53 -0800"
>
<topic>POSIX</topic>

<p>Michael Glasgow reported:</p>

<quote who="Michael Glasgow">

<p>I wrote a simple setuid-root wrapper which sets some capabilities,
gives up all other privs, and and then execs a shell.  I was hoping
to use this wrapper as a login shell so that I could have a user
log in interactively with a small subset of elevated privileges.</p>

<p>Unfortunately after looking over the capabilities code in the 2.4
kernel, it would appear that this is not currently possible, and
my wrapper cannot work without filesystem support for capabilities.
And even then, I'd have to set each file's inheritable flag for the
capabilities I want on every executable that I am likely to run,
including the shell.  Am I mising something, or is this an accurate
description?</p>

<p>I think I understand the rationale behind this behavior; the draft
posix 1003.1e specification states:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>     The purpose of assigning capability states to files is
     to provide the exec() function with information regarding
     the capabilities that any process image created with the
     program in the file is capable of dealing with and have
     been granted by some authority to use.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>So, the lack of an inheritable flag on a file can serve to prevent
that file from executing with the corresponding capability enabled.</p>

<p>Fine, but what about my semi-superuser shell situation?  How can
I force the retention of a capability set across exec() for all
executables?  It would seem that neither the spec nor the current
implementation in the 2.4 kernel allow for this, but it strikes
me as a pretty reasonable and useful thing to do in some cases.</p>

<p>As an interim workaround, how about assuming all capabilities are
inheritable in fs/exec.c:prepare_binprm, i.e. instead of
cap_clear(bprm-&gt;cap_inheritable), call cap_set_full() ???  I don't
think this would break anything, and it would make capabilities a
lot more useful until we get fs support merged in.</p>

</quote>

<p>There was a bit of discussion, and at one point Albert Cahalan said:</p>

<quote who="Albert Cahalan">

<p>The people who wrote the code were working from two different drafts of
the spec. I think some people used draft 16, while others used draft 17.
(or 15 and 16, or 17 and 18 -- a difference of 1) Between these two drafts
there had been BIG changes.  Well, a critical equation changed.</p>

<p>People at SGI, mindlessly cloning the IRIX code, stuck us with the half-ass
set of capability bits we have today. They ignored the DG-UX implementation
using 256 bits and slightly different equations.  They ignored the fact
that the security model will be terribly inconsistent if you still have apps
making UID-based decisions -- that is, you need to allocate bits for glibc,
XFree86, Linux vendors, admin tools, various databases, and local site usage.
Yes it's yucky, but it's required. Covering ears and burying the head won't
make this go away.</p>

<p>Nobody thought to have half the bits default to "on" for stuff currently
allowed for regular users. For example, the right to listen for incoming
network connections could be limited if this had been given a default-enabled
bit.</p>

<p>Then there's the emergency hack done to patch a security hole that the
capability bits introduced.  I think that was back in the early 2.4.x days.</p>

<p>People like to ignore the fact that apps tend to answer "Do I need
setuid-style precautions?"  by examining UID.</p>

<p>People like to ignore the fact that privileged code, written with setuid
in mind, can lead to all sorts of mayhem if 42% of the privileged operations
are prohibited. Yeah, you'd hope that a setuid app has great error checking
and can cope... but "hope" shouldn't satisfy you.  We really need a way
for app authors to mark a binary as "always block rights P, Q, and R" and
"block all rights unless given V, W, and X", with the assumption that an
unmarked app requires an all-or-none situation.</p>

<p>Probably there should be two worlds on the system. Apps with "funny"
rights should be kept away from UID 0 and setuid apps, while apps with UID
0 or setuid should be kept away from "funny" rights. Give the init process
a special ability to cross worlds.</p>

<p>The authors of our code seem to have given up and moved on. Nobody cleaned
up the mess.  Is it any wonder the POSIX draft didn't ever make it beyond
the draft state?</p>

<p>(and damn, WTF is with !capable(...) meaning that you are capable of
performing something?)</p>

<p>One final horror: just imagine trying to write up some sane documentation
for the average admin.  Poorly-understood security mechanisms are a
hazard. BTW, don't forget to imagine documenting all the interactions with
UID, filesystems, etc.</p>

<p>Face it: admins will think in terms of assigning rights to users, never
minding that there are some weird equations, UID interactions, and perhaps
per-executable bits.</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="Status Of BitKeeper Changeset Numbers"
  subject="cset #'s stable?"
  posts="7"
  startdate="21 Oct 2003 08:13:47 -0800"
  enddate="24 Oct 2003 15:34:17 -0800"
>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<mention>Frank Cusack</mention>
<mention>Chris Wright</mention>

<p>Frank Cusack asked if BitKeeper's changeset numbers were stable, because
he noticed that a patch he'd submitted under one changeset number, seemed
to have been incorporated under another. Chris Wright explained that no,
the changeset numbers themselves were not stable, but the key (obtained
by 'bk&#160;changes&#160;-k&#160;-r&lt;rev&gt;' <i>was</i> stable. And
David Woodhouse remarked that, <quote who="David Woodhouse">This is in the
X-BK-ChangeSetKey: header of the mails sent to the mailing lists.</quote>
Theodore Ts'o also explained to Frank, <quote who="Theodore Ts'o">Changeset
numbers are subject to change when you merge in other changesets which
depend on earlier changesets.  So older changeset numbers tend to be more
stable compared to newer changeset numbers, and changeset numbers won't
change unless you have done a pull (or someone else has done a push) to your
repository.</quote> At one point Larry McVoy also said:</p>

<quote who="Larry McVoy">

<p>In general, we're moving towards a BK version where keys (internal
revisions, sort of like mail message id's) are useable anywhere a rev is
useable.</p>

<p>One place we'll be using this is on BK/Web so that you guys can have URLs
that don't change out from underneath you.</p>

<p>We should fix that at the same time that we turn on the GNU patch server
so you can get any changeset as a patch.  The dual T1's are due in at the
end of this month.</p>

<p>There may be some delay, I'm away dealing with family stuff that is way
higher in priority than this but I'll try and get someone else to do it if
it takes longer than the end of the month before I'm back.</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="UML For 2.6.9-test8; Known UML 2.6 Loadable Module Problems"
  subject="uml-patch-2.6.0-test8"
  posts="7"
  startdate="21 Oct 2003 12:18:21 -0800"
  enddate="25 Oct 2003 07:31:18 -0800"
>
<topic>User-Mode Linux</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<p>Jeff Dike announced:</p>

<quote who="Jeff Dike">

<p>This patch updates UML to 2.6.0-test8.</p>

<p>The 2.6.0-test5 UML patch is available at<br />
        <a href="http://jdike.stearns.org/mirror/uml-patch-2.6.0-test8.bz2">http://jdike.stearns.org/mirror/uml-patch-2.6.0-test8.bz2</a></p>

<p>BK users can pull my 2.5 repository from<br />
        <a href="http://jdike.stearns.org:5000/uml-2.5">http://jdike.stearns.org:5000/uml-2.5</a></p>

<p>For the other UML mirrors and other downloads, see<br />
        <a href="http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/dl-sf.html">http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/dl-sf.html</a></p>

<p>Other links of interest:</p>

<p>        The UML project home page : <a href="http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net">http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net</a><br />
        The UML Community site : <a href="http://usermodelinux.org">http://usermodelinux.org</a></p>

</quote>

<p>Brice Goglin reported good success with the patch, <quote who="Brice
Goglin">except when enabling loadable module support (CONFIG_MODULES)</quote>
Jeff replied that this was a <quote who="Jeff Dike">Known problem, I haven't
got around to implementing the changes needed for modules in 2.6.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="udev 005 Released"
  subject="[ANNOUNCE] udev 005 release"
  posts="8"
  startdate="22 Oct 2003 16:14:31 -0800"
  enddate="24 Oct 2003 08:35:54 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: devfs</topic>
<topic>FS: sysfs</topic>
<topic>Hot-Plugging</topic>
<topic>Klibc</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<mention>Chris Friesen</mention>
<mention>Giuliano Pochini</mention>
<mention>Robert Love</mention>

<p>Greg KH announced:</p>

<quote who="Greg KH">

<p>This release is done in advance of a talk about it for the CGL meeting
tomorrow at OSDL.</p>

<p>I've released the 005 version of udev.  It can be found at:<br />
        <a href="http://kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev-005.tar.gz">kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev-005.tar.gz</a></p>

<p>rpms are available at:<br />
        <a href="http://kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev-005-1.i386.rpm">kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev-005-1.i386.rpm</a><br />
with the source rpm at:<br />
        <a href="http://kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev-005-1.src.rpm">kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev-005-1.src.rpm</a></p>

<p>udev is a implementation of devfs in userspace using sysfs and
/sbin/hotplug.  It requires a 2.6 kernel to run.</p>

<p>The major changes since the 004 release are:</p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>klibc is now included in the udev tarball.  If you want to
          build udev with klibc, please see the README file for how to
          do this.</li>
<li>LABEL for the device symlink now works again</li>
<li>if the 'dev' file is not present (like the device was yanked
          out before udev started looking at it), udev will now timeout
          properly.</li>
<li>the namedev.permission and namedev.config files are renamed to
          udev.permission and udev.config.  Make sure to realize this if
          you have customized your rules in the past.</li>
<li>man file updates</li>

</ul>

</p>

<p>The biggest stuff is the klibc integration.  If you build with klibc,
the 453K binary shrinks to 45K.  Nothing like a power of ten decrease :)</p>

<p>The rpms are still built with debugging enabled, using glibc, so they do
not get any size savings yet...</p>

<p>Again, many thanks to Dan Stekloff, Kay Sievers, and Robert Love for
their help with patches for this release.  I really appreciate it.</p>

<p>The full ChangeLog can be found below.</p>

<p>The udev FAQ can be found at:<br />
        <a href="http://kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev-FAQ">kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev-FAQ</a></p>

<p>Development of udev is done in a BitKeeper tree available at:<br />
        bk://kernel.bkbits.net/gregkh/udev/</p>

<p>I have the initial framework of some regression tests in the bk tree,
but there is a libsysfs bug that is keeping these tests from working properly
right now.  The libsysfs people are working on fixing this.</p>

<p>If anyone ever wants a snapshot of the current tree, due to not using
BitKeeper, or other reasons, is always available at any time by asking.</p>

</quote>

<p>Giuliano Pochini asked why devfs had been considered unfixable. Lars
Marowsky-Bree replied, <quote who="Lars Marowsky-Bree">Well, one of the bugs
seems to be that people just didn't like the approach, while udev's approach
is lean and mean and people do seem to approve of it. That's a matter of
taste.</quote> Chris Friesen urged folks not to get into a devfs bashing party,
but to google around for it first.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Status Of UMSDOS In 2.6"
  subject="umsdos and kernel 2.6"
  posts="2"
  startdate="23 Oct 2003 07:30:02 -0800"
  enddate="23 Oct 2003 11:02:56 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: UMSDOS</topic>

<p>Someone asked if Linux 2.6 would support UMSDOS, and Alexander Viro replied,
<quote who="Alexander Viro">Not unless it gets very massive fixes.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Driver Update For MPT Fusion"
  subject="[PATCH]  2.4.23-pre8 driver udpate for MPT Fusion (2.05.10)"
  posts="11"
  startdate="24 Oct 2003 06:53:59 -0800"
  enddate="24 Oct 2003 10:46:13 -0800"
>
<topic>Backward Compatibility</topic>
<topic>Disks: SCSI</topic>
<topic>Hot-Plugging</topic>
<topic>PCI</topic>

<p>Eric Dean Moore of LSI Logic announced:</p>

<quote who="Eric Dean Moore">

<p>Here's a patch for 2.4.23-pre8 kernel for MPT Fusion driver, coming from
LSI Logic.</p>

<p>This patch is large, so I have placed it on the LSI ftp site at: <a
href="ftp://ftp.lsil.com/HostAdapterDrivers/linux/Fusion-MPT/2.05.10/mptlinux-2.05.10.patch">ftp://ftp.lsil.com/HostAdapterDrivers/linux/Fusion-MPT/2.05.10/mptlinux-2.05.10.patch</a></p>

<p>A new email address is setup for directing any MPT Fusion questions: <a
href="mailto:mpt_linux_developer@lsil.com">mpt_linux_developer@lsil.com</a></p>

</quote>

<p>James Bottomley remarked, <quote who="James Bottomley">The policy for
driver updates into 2.4 is that they should be backports from 2.6 (for
things like mpt fusion that have similar drivers) so that the newer driver
gets into 2.6 first.  If you want to send the 2.6 patches, I can queue them
up for when the "bugfix only" freeze is relaxed.</quote> Eric replied:</p>

<quote who="Eric Dean Moore">

<p>I'm clear on the policy, however the 2.05.00.03 MPT driver in 2.6 kernel is
*NOT* compatible with what is shipping in 2.4 kernel which is 2.05.05+ driver.
The driver in 2.6 has had most of the backward compatibility stripped out,
such as Old Error Handling, and many other changes to make it work with new
kernel structures and functions, however doesn't make it backward compatible
to 2.4 kernel.</p>

<p>Our focus has been 2.4 kernel version of the driver as that is what is
shipping in all Linux distributions, and our customers have been asking
for RPM driver updates to the latest driver fix bugs and enhancements for
their shipping systems out in the field.  One major OEM player has requested
we update Kernel.org as to reduce their dependency on LSI for RPM driver
updates. I wish that these updates make their way into the 2.4 kernel.
I will begin porting these changes over the driver in 2.6 immediately.
Also one thing is that there have been change on Maintainership of this
driver from Pam Delaney to myself and Larry Stephens, so things are about
getting back to normal.</p>

</quote>

<p>Elsewhere, Matthew Wilcox also asked if a 2.6 version would become
available, and Eric said yes, but he wasn't sure exactly when. Greg KH asked,
<quote who="Greg KH">How about support for all of the pci hotplug systems on
2.4 that are shipping today?</quote> Matthew replied, <quote who="Matthew
Wilcox">The SCSI system isn't really capable of supporting hotplug PCI in
2.4.</quote> And Greg acknowledged, <quote who="Greg KH">Yeah, but some
drivers almost do (Adaptec comes to mind.)  It will work in a pci hotplug
system, while other scsi drivers will not work at all.</quote> But Christoph
Hellwig came back with, <quote who="Christoph Hellwig">No, it won't work.
calling scsi_register outside -&gt;detect on 2.4 will just get you a dead
Scsi_Host.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="More Status Of Software Suspend"
  subject="Announce: Swsusp-2.0-2.6-alpha1"
  posts="8"
  startdate="25 Oct 2003 00:12:54 -0800"
  enddate="26 Oct 2003 05:57:59 -0800"
>
<topic>Software Suspend</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<p>Nigel Cunningham said:</p>

<quote who="Nigel Cunningham">

<p>I'm pleased to be able to announce the first
test release of a port of the current 2.0 pre-release
Software Suspend code to 2.6. This is now available from <a
href="http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/swsusp">www.sourceforge.net/projects/swsusp</a>
and bk://swsusp25.bkbits.net/main.</p>

<p>Release notes:</p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>The patch is prepared against current bk. It should apply against test8
with minimal and perhaps no fuss.</li>

<li>Breaks current Software Suspend implementations in the kernel.  Apologies
to Patrick and Pavel. I won't be leaving it this way for long, I promise!</li>

<li>I/O is slow and jerky. I need to investigate the cause for this further;
something in the hooks to the new bio code is not quite right.</li>

</ul>

</p>

<p>Apart from the above, and the normal problems with incomplete driver
support will continue. In addition, you may see freezing failures. If the
process hangs at 'Freezing processes: Waiting for activity to finish' or
'Syncing remaining I/O', try pressing escape once. If the process doesn't
abort, try a second time (which tries harder to restart things). All going
well, you should be able to cancel the suspend. A log of what went wrong
will be stored in /var/log/messages. Run it through ksymoops if necessary
and send it to me, and I should be able to address the issue.</p>

<p>Please send feedback via the Software Suspend mailing list on
Sourceforge. See http://swsusp.sf.net for FAQs, mailing list details and
so on. Because the code is essentially the same as the 2.4 version, many of
the solutions to issues will be the same.</p>

</quote>

<p>Iain D. Broadfoot was very excited about this patch, and posted a quick
one-liner that made it compile for him. But later he reported that actually
suspending to disk did not work in his tests.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="New DevFS Replacement uSDE, Similar To udev"
  subject="ANNOUNCE: User-space System Device Enumeration (uSDE)"
  posts="15"
  startdate="27 Oct 2003 12:42:26 -0800"
  enddate="28 Oct 2003 17:59:56 -0800"
>
<topic>Disk Arrays: LVM</topic>
<topic>Disks: IDE</topic>
<topic>Disks: SCSI</topic>
<topic>FS: devfs</topic>
<topic>FS: sysfs</topic>
<topic>Hot-Plugging</topic>
<topic>Networking</topic>
<topic>Serial ATA</topic>
<topic>USB</topic>

<p>Mark Bellon announced:</p>

<quote who="Mark Bellon">

<p>Initial availability of User-Space System Device
Enumeration (uSDE) package, version 0.74, can be found at <a
href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/usde">http://sourceforge.net/projects/usde</a></p>

<p>The uSDE provides an open framework for the enumeration (specification) of
system devices in a dynamic environment. Device handling is implemented via
plug-in programs known as policy methods. Policy methods are free to handle
their devices in any way, from trivial to complex - anything from providing
LSB device nodes to persistent device name handling with replacement and
relocation strategies.</p>

<p>The uSDE depends on /sbin/hotplug (for dynamic insertions and removals),
sysfs (for device information) and /proc (various pieces of information). It
is not dependent on initrd - it explicitly scans sysfs upon system startup
to determine the initial device ensemble.</p>

<p>Part of the uSDE release is a collection of sample polices:</p>

<p>disk-ide-policy - handles IDE, EIDE, SATA and USB-EIDE disks. Implements
persistent device naming, automatic device replacement and automatic device
relocation features.</p>

<p>disk-scsi-policy - handles SCSI, IEEE-1394, FibreChannel and USB-SCSI
disks including multiported devices. Iplements persistent device naming,
automatic device replacement and automatic device relocation features.</p>

<p>multipath-policy - handles the automatic provisioning of multipathing
for multiported storage devices.</p>

<p>ethernet-policy - handles ethernet interefaces. Implements persistent
interface naming, interface anchoring, automatic device replacement and
automatic device relocation features.</p>

<p>floppy-policy - handles internal floppy disks.</p>

<p>simple-device-policy - a "catch all" policy for block and character
devices.</p>

<p>devfs-policy - provides devfs device names.</p>

<p>lsb-policy - provides LSB device names.</p>

<p>Location:       <a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/usde">http://sourceforge.net/projects/usde</a><br />
Mailing list:   usde-general@lists.sourceforge.net</p>

</quote>

<p>Patrick Mochel asked:</p>

<quote who="Patrick Mochel">

<p>How does uSDE relate to udev? You do not mention it in your email,
though it claims to implement similar, if not identical functionality. Is
it related? Is it built on top of it?</p>

<p>If not, are you planning on merging your efforts with udev in the
future?</p>

<p>Are you using the libsysfs library for accessing sysfs data? If not,
I highly recommend it.</p>

<p>I would also recommend sending email to the linux-hotplug list, as most of
the hotplug-related applications are discussed and developed via that list.</p>

</quote>

<p>Mark said he'd look into the mailing list, libsysfs, and merging with udev;
he also explained:</p>

<quote who="Mark Bellon">

<p>The uSDE is not built on top of udev.</p>

<p>The uSDE and udev are similar in some respects. They both create device
nodes. There is a lot more to handling devices than managing device nodes.</p>

<p>Some differences between uSDE and udev that come to mind as I type (a
good deal of this is part of the INTRO in the uSDE tarball):</p>

<p>Devices are classified and an explicit, ordered list of policies are
invoked on behalf of the devices based on that classification.</p>

<p>Policies are implemented as open plug-ins that have complete control
(e.g. naming, configuration, special needs) over a device.</p>

<p>Multiple policies can be executed concurrently; they can be independent
or cooperative.</p>

<p>All device types are embraced - ethernet, disks, cdroms, floppies, MD,
LVM and so on. Policies can analyze data and handle complex situations such
as ethernet interface anchoring, multiported disk handling and automatic
multipath device management.</p>

<p>The concept of service agents who provide critical information to the
enumeration framework allowing policies to handle extremely diverse hardware
situations such as multiple chassis and geographical addressing.</p>

<p>The uSDE sample policies implement basic device replacement and relocation
strategies, something that the community has been asking about for some
time.</p>

<p>If you want to learn more about that differences, download the tarball
and try it out...</p>

<p>The uSDE was built in response to a set of telco and embedded community
requirements. We found it difficult to express our ideas. Everyone
wanted to see code and documentation. Here is the code and the initial
documentation. This is a starting point...</p>

</quote>

<p>A number of people criticized Mark for starting a project from scratch,
that was so similar to an existing project such as udev. And Greg KH said at
one point, <quote who="Greg KH">I have a few emails from you lying around here
from back in Feb and March of this year in which you detailed this project.
And you have been aware of udev from at least April, as it's code has been
public since then.</quote> He also added his voice to those asking why
the new project was begun, in favor of contributing to the existing udev
project. Mark replied:</p>

<quote who="Mark Bellon">

<p>The two packages take philosophically different approaches and arrive with
(largely) overlapping and some non-overlapping capabilities - after all they
are both trying to do "the same thing". The uSDE has strengths and weaknesses
just as udev or any program does. It is certainly possible to discuss changes
(and make patches) to udev to incorporate the key issues addressed in the
uSDE implementation.</p>

<p>The uSDE is an encapsulation of ideas and techniques. It is "complete"
enough for those ideas to be discussed in a community setting and we can see
how/what to move things together. Think of it as the projects "resting place"
from which to confidently discuss techniques and implementions.</p>

</quote>

<p>He also went into more detail on what his requirements were, and why udev
didn't meet them:</p>

<quote who="Mark Bellon">

<p>The requirements were collected from the OSDL CGL requirements
specification version 1.0 and 1.1 ratified September 2002. They come from
extensive discussions with the OSDL members as part of the definition of
these requirements, expounding on them:</p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>The embracing of all device types with no specialization or
limitation.</li>

<li>The ability to have total control over the handling a device via external
policy programs. Policy programs are invoked with a formal command line and
description of the event that caused there invocation.</li>

<li>The "service container" concept. A device is classified (or recognized
by a pattern match) and this raises an (queued) event which is caught by
a configurable "service container". The container is an ordered list of
handlers that process the device.</li>

<li>Event queuing and aggregation. Minimizing the number of program invocations
(fork/exec) is critical in embedded environments - small processors.</li>

<li>Aggressive device enumeration. Multiple concurrent policy execution
and management.</li>

<li>

<p>Device information persistence is a function of device policies, not the
enumeration framework.</p>

<p>There are many situation where persistence is not an issue at all or
only in specific cases (like disks). Why always pay for the memory/disk,
for persistence, when it is not (always) necessary?</p>

</li>

<li>Transactional protection of multiple configuration files is necessary.
Multiple configuration files must often be modified in unison and insurance
is necessary that an accurate and correct set of data is used when processing
devices.</li>

</ul>

</p>

</quote>

<p>Greg had a lot of points to make in response, but the discussion petered
out immediately, with nothing conclusive emerging.</p>

</section>

</kc>

